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All right, Trey, you’ve gotta tell me this. What is the single biggest difference when it comes to fitness for, let’s just say a general athlete, someone who’s very athletic, maybe doesn’t have one specific sport they’re into, but is considered just a general athlete versus someone who is, let’s say in motor sports, cuz you’re really into motor sports, that’s your niche.

Um, what is like the number one biggest difference between the training that you do for those two types of athletes? You know, I think it might actually surprise you a little bit. Drivers are nerds, , they love having data. They want to know all the numbers on everything they’re doing. They want to know the metrics.

They want to know, like they wanna track everything. They want to see what their baselines are compared to where they’re at in the future. Like, they, they’re all, they want data, they’re nerds. Whereas like the, the normal athlete just wants to like, feel like they’re getting better. All these drivers, they want to see it.

They wanna see the numbers. That’s wild. And it what, but it also kind of makes sense because they’re spending so much time reviewing data to see, you know, do I need to get off the brake sooner? Do I need to turn in more? Looking at some of the data from the, the car. So I guess it kind of makes sense. Data, people like data.

So that’s interesting. Now, let me ask you this. To me, I used to raise cars, race supermoto, so very familiar with like what gets sore and what gets banged up and where the areas were to be optimized. Seems like with Motorsport specifically, um, it’s more of like a core that we’re looking at. We’re we’re focused more on core.

Is that not really true? Yeah, core is, core is big. Um, if you’re looking at like the main differences between like a, a driver and maybe a, a football player or a uh, or a, a baseball player or something like that, uh, there’s two really big differences that you’ll see. One is the neck drivers have to have, I mean, just ridiculously strong necks.

There’s a lot of sustained. , uh, G loads that they’ve gotta face. And the neck works not only to basically hold their head up, but it also stabilizes their vision and then protects them in the case of like an impact protects them from, uh, an increased risk of concussion. So neck is huge. And then also when it comes to the core, the biggest thing with that is it’s the core has gotta be strong, but the breathing muscles also have to be able to breathe into a compressed thorax and a activated core, which is something that athletes in other sports really don’t have to deal with at all.

That’s a good point. By the way, guys, we’re here with Trey Shannon. Um, he is the program director at Pit Fit in Charlotte, North Carolina. And, uh, in the, the home, I, I would say, I mean, I, I called the Homer Motor Sports. I mean, you know, you got J G R there, you’ve got a lot of people. I mean, would you agree with that title or am I given that title to you, or, I mean, I mean, that is the title, isn’t it?

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, Morrisville, North Carolina, which is right up the road is called Race City usa. Right. Um, but yeah, most of NASCAR is based here. All the teams are based here. NASCAR headquarters is in downtown Charlotte. Um, and then you, us obviously have Indianapolis, which is like your other home of motorsports here in the US and that’s where our.

where our other location is. So you mentioned earlier that you thought I was in Indianapolis. That’s probably why cuz our other pit fit location is over there. That was it. Yeah, cuz I did, I did my research and due diligence before I jumped on this and that was exactly what it was because I was like, why?

You know, cuz my brain does definitely do some odd things and I put some, you know, you, you think that you’re right all the time and oftentimes you realize that it’s just the story that you’re believing that isn’t always true as a mental performance coach. That’s how I see things. No, you were, you were closer to right than you think.

Pit Pit fit’s been around for like 20 years in Indianapolis and Pit Fit Charlotte has only been around for a little over a year. . Gotcha. Okay. Very cool. So I work with a pro golfer, and I, I couldn’t wait to ask you this question because we’re, we kind of are stuck, and I know that you’re more into, um, you know, the physical fitness side, but obviously there’s a nutrition piece that goes with it.

And I know you’re not maybe specifically a nutritionist, but I think this is gonna be something that you’d offer some really interesting insights on, especially with your background with these longer 24 hour type races that you’ve competed in yourself. Right? Yeah, yeah. I’ve done, I’ve done seven of those.

Seven, yeah, just seven. Just seven. . Yeah. Seems to be a nice number. I don’t know. Seven. Seven seems to be a special number somehow. It is a great number. Um, so what’s interesting is, um, how so I know. , there’s systems for you to consume liquids, and obviously you can put things within those liquids. Um, how, how do you recommend an athlete who’s doing more of a longer endurance type?

Uh, you know, let’s say. , just to give you a little more clarity, maybe I’m talking in selfishly, I’m thinking more of like my golfer. So let’s call the 18 rounds, probably what, I don’t know, five hours, whatever the math is, depending on how the pace is. Um, what, what are your thoughts on this idea of gluco, neogenesis and glucose levels?

Because obviously if you have an athlete that consumes a certain amount of food early on and tries to fuel their body with a lot of calories, it’s gonna be like a spike depending on, of course, what they eat and then they might fade out. And I just feel like with the golfer that I’m working with sometimes, you know, in the later three quarters, you know, the last quarter of play seems to be, uh, we’re a little concerned as to what do we do to keep the hunger down and what do we do to keep the, the vibes high and keep the, the stomach quiet.

But without having some sort of glucose spike, how do you manage that with your. You know, it’s, you said a couple of the magic words there, right? And, and I think the, the biggest thing is five hours, five and a half hours, that’s a long time to go without eating anything. Especially for an athlete.

Especially an athlete that is performing in their sport, even if it’s, even if it’s golf. I mean, the energy expenditure in golf, I think is extremely under underestimated and undervalued. So, um, you know, for, for something like that, we would, we would try to focus on a, making sure he doesn’t get hungry, right?

So make sure there’s some protein and some fat and whatever he is consuming, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a solid food. It’s something he can put in a water bottle, right? And that’s what we’ll use, that’s what we’ll use with our drivers a lot, is we’ll typically put in a solution that is, it is gonna be glucose heavy carbohydrate.

because that’s gonna be their primary source of energy as they’re going through, going through that activity. But making sure that they have a little bit of protein to keep their stu that sensation of being full or keep, let’s say, keeping away the sensation of being hungry. You don’t necessarily wanna be full, but keeping away the sensation of being hungry and then a little bit of fat to balance out that glucose spike that you’re thinking of.

Because when you have, when you have a high glycemic intake, you essentially get that glycemic spike. So what you can do to balance that out is, is put some protein and fat in there to make sure that it doesn’t create that just boom cliff. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, cuz it, it’s very real. I mean, I know with.

I, at one point I thought I might have been a diabetic or something. I actually went, I, I was like, all right, who do I know that’s a diabetic? I’m like, oh, Eric Block guy. Who, him And I used to, uh, he was my mechanic, but also my number one competitor when I was expert Supermoto. And I said, Hey man, um, I’m fasting.

I need to know like what my glucose levels are. I think I’m a diabetic, so I’m gonna come over, I’m gonna load myself off and then I’m just gonna keep pricking myself for like half the day at your house. Is that cool? Let’s see what happens. . See what happened. Cause as a former, uh, optometrist eye doctor, usually I treat 95% of my problems.

You know, like I’ve had an M C L injury. I’m like, uh, I can wing that one. Um, you know, if I have some dermatology stuff, I do my best, but without anesthesia, some of the things I’ve been doing lately are a little bit too graphic. But, um, you know, I try to take care of my body. . I always feel like I’m on my, my own best advocate.

But, um, it’s interesting because the whole neogenesis and, and the glucose, it’s very real. And then what’s also fascinating, and I don’t know if you know this, I bumped into this recently, um, is that the brain consumes 20% of your glucose stores. And I’m like, really? And it was interesting cuz I said, is that why back in the day when I was taking long exams for like, you know, an hour and a half, two hours, maybe even three, um, is that why I felt so exhausted after?

And so, you know, you start to realize that there’s this whole internal game of not just the mental game that I focus on, but this game of managing nutrition, managing sugar, and then, you know, managing recovery. I mean, how, how do you manage an. I mean, cuz it’s gotta be a different type of workout, I would imagine.

I mean, let’s say for example, I’m a motor sports athlete. I’m not competing maybe 24, maybe something a little less aggressive. Um, you know, typical race weekend for a auto driver, you know, um, how do you manage the fitness leading up to it? And also after it, because I mean, there needs to be some degree of recovery, but what does that, how do those two pieces look different?

Yeah, so you talked a little bit too about how the, the brain uses 20% of the, of, of the glucose stores, and that’s one of the areas that we focus on a lot in terms of making sure everybody’s body is efficient. So the, the more efficient, the more fit they are, the more efficient they can be. And racing is much more mental than it is physical, especially over a long duration, uh, over a long duration, um, race.

And, and when I say mental, I mean mostly on the cognitive. , you know, the cognitive demands. There’s also definitely psychological demands and, and you know, you, you probably know as well as anybody that being, being more physically fit can actually help with emotional response control and stuff like that too.

But with, with creating a more fit athlete, then we can now make it so that their, their body doesn’t need as much of that energy that their brain can then go and use when it really needs it late in a race, something like that. So that’s, you know, during the off season we try to, you know, we always talk about, people always talk about building that engine, building that engine.

We wanna make an efficient engine, I mean a really efficient engine. So that’s our main goal during the off season. And then during the season, you talked about going, you know, preparing for a race, but then recovering after. That’s huge. And we wanna make sure that during the season they’re not getting overworked.

Right. So when it comes to, when it comes to preparation and recovery, we’ll taper their. Will taper their load as they go into a race weekend and then coming back from it, you know, that first day back. They’re just, you know, they’re doing a cardiac output exercise, whether it’s a single exercise or a circuit or something like that.

The goal is put them in that like one 20 beats per minute to one 50 beats per minute range where they’re getting good blood flow and they’re activat, they’re activating the muscles that have had been fatigued over the race weekend. But it’s purely recovery as the goal. I mean, that’s, that’s the only thing we’re doing day one after a race, is you’re in recovery mode.

We are not coming in here lifting heavy. We’re not coming in here and doing, you know, inter, you know, sprint intervals or something like that. We’re in recovery mode that first day back. And it depends on, it depends on the driver. Some we may take two days and then really work, really work ’em hard like that third day and then try to give them some sort of, , um, you know, central nervous system stimulation before they go back off to back off to the race.

Mm-hmm. . All right. I like that. And what I want to do is oval back to something that you said at the beginning of this. See how I did that? Not circle back, but oval back. I like it . Exactly. I got you. Yeah, I mean, I, I’m assuming this is how you guys and Charlotte talk, so I’m just, I’m just trying to connect you here,

I mean, that’s all I’m trying to do. Um, so you had talked about, and I would love to hear a little bit more about, maybe expand upon the, the actual numbers and the data. I mean, . Um, you know, because with me, myself as a mental performance coach, it’s really tough to quantify. You know, it’s like there’s, there’s not really o other than results.

Um, and, and sometimes maybe vibe and then maybe mm-hmm. , you know, I’ve been trying to come up with some sort of data, so I’ve been also, um, dancing between like this intention and execution ratio. Um, and just trying to think of ways that I can quantify, change, quantify success so I can start to identify what’s working and what’s not, where the opportunities lie.

So, ling back to what you had said earlier. What are the numbers that are important and maybe what are some of like the vanity metrics that don’t matter? I mean, you know, I sometimes, like the other day I had my personal best on the flat bench, but I’m. I still got a gut, really doesn’t matter. , you know, I mean, like, I should, I’d be better off not doing flat bench and just not eating for a week and then drop like 10 pounds, you know?

But, um, tell me more about the metrics that mean that me have meaning to you. Yeah. Well, for one, don’t sleep on anecdotal data for, I, I find I personally find it very important and we use, and we definitely do use it, we use feedback from our drivers after they come back from a race and that, that is important.

That’s not, that’s not to be discounted. Um, but at the same time, like you said, it is important to get actual data that you can analyze actual numbers. So what we do is we actually have a brain endurance training program that we use here. It’s called soma. And um, we’ll use that as our brain endurance. And then we also have the synap tech systems to use, uh, with the more like the, the quick response type stuff.

Um, shorter duration. . So all of those, they give, they give us the numbers, right? They, uh, they give us data as we go along. And especially with Soma, what we, what we have is we can do pre and post training program data. So they, they make sure we set baselines. You go through the program, you review those baselines again, at the end.

Same with the Snap Tech before, whenever, whenever anybody comes in here, day one, they get a postural assessment, they get a performance assessment, they get a neurocognitive assessment on the Snap Tech machine. So we’ll test 10 different, uh, visual-based neurocognitive, uh, skills on that. They all get a baseline, and then we can retest that as needed to make sure that they’re actually improving.

See where, see areas that maybe if we’re focusing on, you know, X, Y, and Z, maybe QP and R or our, you know, dropping a little bit and we them wanna refocus a little bit. a little bit more energy on those, but, uh, we make sure we have baselines for everybody with all of these things before we just, you know, before we start, uh, before we start developing anything.

Mm-hmm. , have you bumped into, um, one thing that I thought was interesting and, and I think it was more the, and I wonder if it was more their marketing and more some of the pretty colors and the little whistles and dings and God knows what else, but there was a, uh, company that reached out to me that had a focus band that you wore around your head.

Have you delved into that arena at all as far as like managing focus using technology or have you not gone down that road yet? Um, we don’t necessarily do, we don’t do that here at Pit Fit. Um, but actually there is somebody here in the Charlotte area that if I feel like anybody needs. Um, there’s somebody I can send ’em to, so she does like neurofeedback, brain mapping, that kind of stuff.

And actually, you know, manipulating the, the different frequencies of, of brain wave that we have, you know, whether you’re looking at, um, what is it, alpha, beta, and, um, delta, like there’s, yeah, alpha, there’s something, yeah, there’s something else in there. But Gamma, um, yes, gamma, that’s the other one. Um, so, uh, it’s called Mental Edge Fitness Solutions, I think.

And they’re right down the road here in, in Cornelius, and they can do that kind of stuff. And if I feel like somebody is in need of that, then I’ll send them, I’ll send ’em over that way. But, um, but yeah, it’s not something that we necessarily have the, the technology or to be frank, the expertise to, to get too far into, I mean, you know, that is, that is true neuroscience and, and it’s something that we can potentially add in the future.

But, um, with within the scope of what we. Practice now and, and what our capabilities are. That’s a little bit, that’s just, you know, just a little bit outside. Yeah. Have you bumped, just outta curiosity, have you bumped into any of the work of Andrew, Dr. Hu Huberman, or now, uh, yeah. Very familiar with Andrew Huberman.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Listen, I listen to his podcast, you know, once every couple of weeks to make sure I’m keeping current with, with what kind of stuff he’s putting. Yeah, he’s definitely, um, he’s, he’s been crushing it lately. I mean, he just popped onto the scene, you know, I think it was, you know, maybe a little less aggressive, uh, popping onto the scene than Andrew Tate, but he definitely, a little bit, yeah, came, , he definitely came out of nowhere and just all of a sudden he is, he seems everywhere.

I don’t know if it’s the YouTube algorithm, just recommending him to me, and I’m a, a victim of the algorithm, but gratefully, um, you know, and thankfully there’s a lot of knowledge that he shares. What, has there been anything that you’ve learned from him, from a neuroscience standpoint that you’ve applied into your program that’s been useful?

Yeah, it’s changed a little bit the way we approach, uh, like heater cold therapy, if we do want to use any of that, and the, and the general effects that has, you know, neurologically, um, that’s, you know, in terms of what we do here, that’s, that’s probably been the, the largest, um, , like the largest influence that he’s, that he’s had?

Mm-hmm. . Yeah, definitely with, with heat, where, with temperature manipulation and, and what it does for the body. Nice. So you are working with a variety of athletes, a lot, many of whom have, you know, uh, have had great success in motor sports. And I’m really curious, obviously don’t use any names because we don’t want your shop to close down, you know, anytime soon.

But what’s the difference between the guys that are crushing it and you’re like, you, you could almost tell like, that guy’s got it. Because I know with me, I’ve got my clients that I work with on the mental performance coaching side that I know are gonna get there, but it’s gonna be a slow long road. And I have the other guys where I’m like, wow, man, if you just gimme a little bit more trust, a little more time, a little more attention, I can get you places that you probably don’t even think you can go.

What’s been the difference that you’ve seen yourself, um, between the guys that you’ve worked with and gals and they thems and others? . I still don’t understand. That’s all of them. Everybody. Everyone. Yeah. I wanna be inclusive here. Pets, whatever. Fish. Um, when you’re working with someone, what do you think is really the main, like taking a step back from fitness, taking a step back from your world, cuz like you’re a really smart man, you look at things in a different way, you’ve got an engineering background.

What do you see as being the main core differentiator? Maybe even a couple things that you want to share between the great and the good. Yeah, man, there’s, oh, this is something I’ve thought so much about too. So I actually. Uh, a pretty long answer for this one. So, so bear with me for a couple minutes here cuz there’s, we’re gonna go into a few different areas.

We’re gonna kind of jump that a little bit. Love. We’re gonna, we’re definitely gonna jump around. So, one, let’s do it. My pot roast doesn’t done for 43 more minutes. I hear the, I hear the steamer beeping. I’m like, do we really need this many beeps? Like it says 44 minutes on the front. Like, I’m good. I don’t need, man, I, I almost, I almost wanna make a couple of notes real quick so that I don’t forget what each different bullet point I wanna hit on here.

But let, well, if you want, I can start, let’s a copy of this video when we’re done with it. Cause I’m gonna have it an audio and video form for $7. I mean Oh, perfect. Wrong. Yeah. Gimme two. Gimme two . Go ahead. Sorry to interrupt, . So the, I was, and I’m gonna put these in no specific order. So one of them is going to be a, their brain works on just a different level, to be honest.

Like when it comes to how quickly their brain is capable of processing things, how quickly signals go from their eyes to their brain and a response is created. , um, the, the really, really high level drivers, they’re on a, they are on a different level. I’ve got a couple in here that, um, we talked about the Snap Tech machine a second ago.

I’ve got a couple that the, the standard drills that are on there are, were too easy and they had to create their own. Wow. Like literally had to create their own. We bring other people in, they can’t even get, you know, half the half of the full score. That what the other, what the people who create them can get.

Like brain just works on a different level and you know, that that goes as far as, you know, perception, peripheral vision, a lot of different elements go into that. But when it comes to just sheer brain processing speed and how much information can come in, get absorbed, processed, and a response created, it’s a lot, it’s a lot quicker for, for the guys that are really guys and girls that are really at top level.

Um, the second is, and, and these aren’t mutually inclusive. There’s some people, you know, they have one, but maybe not another, and something like that. Mm-hmm. , um, and stepping away from Fit Fitness and maybe into your world a little bit here. Um, I’ve noticed that the guys that are, the guys and girls that are really, really top level, they, they’re capable of practicing self-compassion.

They, they are not, you know, punching themselves in the face when they get something, when they do something wrong, when they make a mistake, they, I call it the, um, I always refer to it as like the Eli Manning trait. You know, like if I asked you who is a better quarterback? Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, you’re gonna say Peyton.

Everybody’s gonna say Peyton Manning, but Eli Manning has the same number of Super Bowls. You know why? Because he, he forgets that he makes mistakes. He just keeps on going, just keeps, he’ll throw an interception. , you go and you, you go and ask him what happened on the sideline. He is like, I don’t know. I’m working, I’m focusing on what we’re doing gonna do next.

So, you know, his, his ability to practice self-compassion is, was I think one of the things that made him a two-time Super Bowl winner. And I can see when, when really talented drivers come in here and they’re capable of, of doing that, then they’re gonna perform really, really well. Um, so that’s, that’s the second, the third, they are at the same time always trying to improve.

That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re getting on themselves about, um, about the performance they just had, but no matter what they could, they could have just won the race. And they’re in here trying to get better. They’re all like, they’re in here trying to get better. They’re trying to get better at the sim, they’re trying to get better on the sim, they’re reviewing data.

they’re practicing their, you know, their, their imagery work or whatever it is they’re doing with, you know, if they’re working with a mental coach, like they’re, they’re constantly, constantly trying to get better and they’re very curious about it. They wanna know, they wanna know why we’re doing this, they wanna know why we’re doing that.

They’re very curious about all these things. Anybody who just does what I say, I’m like, well, you’re gonna go, you’re gonna go maybe this far, but you’re not gonna go, you’re not gonna go all the way to the top. And maybe, you know, maybe they still will. There are, there are guys and girls that their talent level just transcends everybody else’s, and they can get to certain places just based on talent.

But, you know, imagine how much farther they could have gone if they, if they were more curious and more hungry and, and practice self-compassion a little bit better and, and all that kind of stuff. I would tell you the ones that are just supreme talents, they’re the ones that their brain works on a different level.

Like that’s, that one is pretty much, um, across the board. Like if they’re, regardless of all the other things, if they are just straight up talent, , their brain’s gonna be on another level. Um, so yeah, those are, those are probably the, the three biggest that I see. Uh, outside of, you know, them being, them being fit is brains on another level.

They know how to practice self-compassion and they’re always very curious and trying to, trying to continue getting better all the time. I love it because, you know, it’s interesting, one of my current athlete that is on the maybe steepest trajectory, we’ll say, um, loves to challenge me. And, you know, it was so funny the, the first time it happened, it wasn’t that I was against it, it was just so unfamiliar to me.

And then I like had this odd moment. where I was like conflicted because I’m like, all right, this guy’s crushing me, but this is what I do. But then, and at first I was kind of like, oh geez, you know, did I say something wrong? And then nothing. And then with like within like 2.5 seconds, I was like, why am I so excited about this?

Yeah. He wants to know, yeah, this is great. Like, don’t, like we’re having a conversation. I’m not always right. Ask my girlfriend. I’ve only been right twice. . . I’ve only been right twice in seven years, twice. So if I’m coaching, hey, that’s a good average , that’s pretty solid in a relationship. It is. Certainly not with the client

But what was interesting is I, I love how you say that, because he’s so passionate to become better that he, to your point, , he questions me, but, but it’s, you know, think about questioning, you know, if someone questions you and it’s your wife being like, well, where were you last night? That’s a different type of question than is like, wait a minute, you’re telling me I did this, but like, I don’t think I did that.

That’s a different type of question. Mm-hmm. , you know, it’s like, all right, let’s look at your perspective. You know, I always like to think of like a pyramid, like a pers I call it like the perspective pyramid, where you’ve got maybe your perspective at the base of the pyramid, and then you challenge yourself to look at things from a completely polar opposite, uh, perspective.

See if you get where you need to go, see if you gain some knowledge, uh, some clarity, and then if not, maybe think of like how your idle or someone you look up to that you would look to for advice, might look at things and you have like these three different ways of looking things. It gives you. A different perspective on things.

Mm-hmm. so that you can maybe see things in a different way through a different set of lenses and see if maybe there’s something you missed. And so I love that you said that. I don’t wear glasses. I, I only have, you don’t, only one set of lenses. They’re clear. Well, when you’re an eye doctor, I think you’re basically like destined to have glasses.

Plus I’ve gotten to that point where there’s a place down the road that is really like amazing food. You ever come out my way to Connecticut, which there’s absolutely no reason for you to come here, but if you do, um, there’s a place down the street. And it’s so funny because I usually wear my contacts there and I’m at the point where I can’t read the menu.

So I always look at the bartender and I’m like, we’re friends, right? She’s like, yeah, like. I’ve told you before, I’m like, you have to, I have to order the same thing. I have no choice. I don’t know what’s on. I don’t know. , this thing, this piece of paper. I don’t even know if there’s even writing on it, you know?

But, uh, anyways, so might as well be a picture. Exactly. . Yeah. So, um, another thing that was really interesting that you said, and I was super excited when you said it, you used one of my words, I’m all about personal philosophy. So for me, my personal, personal philosophy, I like to come up with three words that have meaning to me.

And the reason why it’s important to me is if I’m ever stuck, bored, bummed, challenged. Whatever. Even if I just wanna excel, I’m, I’m not gonna say it’s all negative, even if I want to try to figure out a way to be better, so I’m, I’m on the uptick, I’m feeling good, I’m feeling the vibe and I want uptick. I always like to lean on my personal philosophy, which is always to me, three words that I hold, uh, as being very valuable.

They’re almost like core values for me. And it was interesting that you said this, but so mine is be kind, be curious, and be creative. So when you said curious, that really resonated with me because it’s so true. If you just, you, you could build a brand and a business off of curiosity. You could build a career off of curiosity.

And it’s just interesting because I hear these athletes, I don’t know about you. Have you ever listened to any of the Post? I’m addicted. Addicted to two things, Chipotle and post-race interviews. Have you wa, have you paid much attention to post race interviews in any sport? Uh, first of all, MOS over Chipotle.

You, dude, we’re editing this out. No way. No, we’re keeping it in pun. You’re gonna keep, we’re my, my channel’s gonna get canceled, ? No way. No. No. Unless, unless there’s a sponsorship involved that I’m like stepping on here. I definitely mos over Chipotle. But wait, wait, wait. I’m gonna, yes. My answer is yes. I know

I know why you like moose because they give you so much down attention when you walk through that door. Don’t let that fool you. . It’s the tacos, man. They’re just better in your defense. I have not tried the tacos, so I will. Yeah, I will not be, I will. Let me breathe through my belly for a sec. There you go.

Give gimme a second. Or wait, you know what, Andrew Huberman, physiological sigh. You like it? There you go. Yeah. Get that chronic nerve

purse lips. So it’s a stacking one big breath with a little on top of it, and then purse lips on the exhale. Boom. You know what, dude, maybe you know what? I’m curious as to whether you better Chipotle. Wow. Look what just happened. We just saw realtime transformation.

Anyways, go on. Glad I can help . But to answer your question, yes, I love post-race interviews. I, I love them. I love, I wanna know what people. Have to say, and I want to know what people are thinking after a race. And um, yeah, I just, I I love it. Yeah. And so, so, and I, so I wanna ask you something in a moment, but just to bring it full circle to make the point is, I, I personally, cuz I have an amateur program that I use because my one-on-one stuff, my direct contact with athletes is a little more expensive.

Mm-hmm. . So it’s not in everyone’s price range. So I have a group that I do on Monday nights and also Tuesday around 11 o’clock for my, uh, people in Europe that are part of it. And in the on season for Supercross motocross cuz it’s a very niche Supercross motocross group. We’ll review half of our time as a learning lesson, the other half is reviewing some of these post-race interviews.

And what’s interesting to me is very rarely do you hear much curiosity. And to your point, you made a great point earlier, which is self-compassion. It’s almost like. , they wanna beat themselves up. And, and there’s in, in my theory is that if you beat yourself up in front of someone else, it’s so they, they’re like, oh, wait, Trey, listen, I know.

No, no, Trey, wait, let me, here’s some . Here’s some food, here’s some brownies, here’s some compa. Here’s some love. Here’s some attention. You know, let me, let me, you know, so it’s almost like you’re playing the victim role. And also I find that everyone blames their suspension. Everyone said this is, this is my, let me keep you my here.

Uh, ask me how my race was. Jay, how’s your race go today? You know, Trey, you know, we didn’t, you know, didn’t get the result we were hoping for. Um, we’re gonna regroup and, uh, you know, we’re gonna take the positives from this. Um, . Good luck. Good luck. You forgot. You forgot. Come back out and execute next time.

Yeah, we’re gonna come back, execute and you know, yeah, you gotta execute. It’s important. Um, you know, you know, and also now that I think about it, I couldn’t get comfortable on the bike now. I don’t think it was because I’m stressful and anxiety and I have anxiety and I haven’t managed that well. And therefore my inputs with my hands and my grip strength aren’t maybe changing the dynamics of how I’m interacting with my bike and what’s happening underneath it.

It, but now that I’m getting curious, maybe that is it. So you actually just mentioned something that I think is the fourth trait, let’s say, that really defines a like high level performer, at least what we see with our drivers in here. And you talked about, you know, basically adapting to the bike, the really, really.

high level guys and girls are adaptable. I mean, that’s, they a hundred percent. They’re all, they’re all adaptable. I mean, look at, one of my, one of my favorite examples is, um, if you look in like F1 and cars are, everybody’s got a, a slightly different car, right? Everybody designs a, everybody designs a new car every year and it’s all made to the same formula.

But everybody’s got a different car. It’s not a spec series. And I’m sure this is similar in, in, in Moto too, where you know, everybody’s on different factory bikes and you’ll see some, you’ll see some riders mesh well with certain bikes, some riders don’t. And same in f1. You see some drivers, they have trouble getting on top of getting on top of a, of a new bike or a new, a new car as quickly as maybe their teammate or something like that.

But you see guys like Max for Steppen or Eli Tomak, they’re fast on anything. , you put ’em in anything, on any bike, in any car, and they’re fast because they’re adaptable. The really, truly great drivers, riders, competitors in any sport are adaptable. God, I love that. It’s so true. And you know what’s so funny?

It’s such, I think people need to watch out for simplicity. Simplicity can be your friend, but it also can make you, um, not notice the value of something to the value that it should be appreciated. Because you’re absolutely right. And you know, if you follow Moto, I mean, I’m branching out from motor sports and looking to get in more into tennis and golf and baseball and all this, but I will say that with my hyper focus and of knowledge and awareness of the players, and so Supercross, motocross, you see so often that there’s guys that just don’t, um, I, I, I don’t know.

They, they, they, they don’t adapt, you know? And, and the first person that comes to mind is someone like a Ken Roxon, you know? And you see in, in Motocross, Supercross, they’re always chasing suspension settings. But I can tell you this cuz I’ve researched this. is that most of the guys that are chasing a setting, what they do is they start here with a setting that’s recommended by the team.

Maybe another, um, athlete on the team has done well with it, and then they say, well, it’s not working for me, not working for me. Let’s try this. Let’s try that. Let’s try. And then before you know it, guess where they end up? Right. Back exactly where they started. Yep. . Yep. Well, it, it, it’s almost like a guarantee, you know?

Yeah. If there was a stock, I would have tens of thousands of dollars that I don’t have all in on it, and I would just go all in. And so, so what’s interesting is, so I, so I, I know we’re getting off of what your expertise is in, but this is just Trey and Jay talking. Oh, man. Oh, I still lo I still love this shit.

I mean, all right, good. I love it. You’re with me on this. All right, Trey and percent, dude, that’d be a good, like some sort of brand there. Maybe frozen yogurt, Trey and Jay. Yeah, absolutely. I can, I did frozen yogurt. I’m, I’m not hustle. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Sweet frog. Like I’m a little bit. , like the sweet part I got, but then the frog, I’m like, eh, not a fan of frog.

Like frogs are all right. But I don’t know, ayahuasca, isn’t that what they use ’em for? I don’t know. Whatever . Anyways, but um, so when it comes to adaptability and, and you know what’s interesting is I’m having this conversation with you, not knowing even where I stand on it, but I want to explore with you on this and be curious about your response to it and even where my mind goes with it.

What do you think? I always like to look at things two ways. I like to look at things where I say, well, what promotes adaptation and adaptability and what is the thing that is restricting it or causing the resistance to people be to being adaptable? What are your thoughts on both of those angles? Man, I don’t know if I’ve, I don’t know if I’ve looked at it.

That way before, um, I’m not looking for a right answer. I’m looking gut, gimme gut. No, I’m, I’m just thinking, so what could, what could restrict, I think what could restrict somebody from adaptability is, um, is a, is like an expectation, right? If you have a specific expectation of what it should be or what it is supposed to be, you’re, you’re not going to adapt to what it actually is.

And then the, the counterside of that, the, uh, what facilitates adaptability, I think is creativity is, you know, you don’t have that expectation. Expectation. You’re just going in to try to make something. You don’t know what you’re gonna make, but you’re gonna make something. And before you know it, you’ve made chi, you’ve made chicken salad outta chicken, shit,

So, you know, that’s, I think that’s the, I love it, you know, if, if, if you have a specific expectation, you’re gonna limit adaptability. Whereas if you’re going in with no expectation and you’re just trying to be creative, um, or. , you know, just have that open mind. There’s, there’s where your adaptability comes from.

And it’s, it’s super funny cause I, I, I saw this analogy. I can’t take credit for it. I wish it was mine cuz this man, it’s good. Um, I don’t know if you know who Derek Daley is. He used to race in Formula One and IndyCar back in the eighties, nineties. And, uh, his son races in IndyCar now. But, um, he’s a, uh, a very well-respected, uh, opinion when it comes to, to motorsports.

And he said there’s two types of drivers and he was talking in the context of how to build an F1 team and you want to have one of each of these types of drivers. But, um, it, it really struck a chord with me when I read it and I was like, man, this is, this is really genius. The two different types of drivers are a, the, um, the feel sensitive driver who needs to try to dial in everything to his or her liking, right?

and that’s what, you know, they kind of come, but if they’re good at it, they start here and they go, all right, this is optimal. And they, they find it. Right. So the, the feel sensitive, uh, the feel sensitive drivers and I’m sure there are feel sensitive rider as well, you know, sounds like Ken Roxon is that kind of, that kind of style where he needs to feel right on the bike to perform at his best.

So you feel sensitive drivers and then you have your instinct reflex drivers who just, they’re like, gimme the car, I’m gonna drive it. And they adapt to what the car gives them and they, they just, they perform no matter how it is. Now, they may not be able to get the, they’ll get the optimum of what that car is set up for in the moment.

But they may not be able to get that car’s true potential cuz they don’t know how to, they’re not, they’re not sensitive. They don’t feel it well enough to get it to its optimum, but they’re always at their optimum cuz they’re gonna adapt to it. Right. And he said the most, the most deadly driver, the, the Lewis Hamilton’s, the max first staffs, the, the Michael Schumachers.

They’re both, oh, I didn’t see them coming. They’re both, ooh. They can, they can adapt to an ill handling race car or in, you know, motos case, an ill handling bike. But at the same time, when they come off the track or even during the race, they’re telling their crew, they’re telling their engineers how to, how to tune on it to make it even better for them.

But at the same time, they’re just, they’re adapting to what it is now. They know that they can make it better. They’ll work on making it better, but they also know how to adapt to drive it the best that it possibly can be driven in the moment. And I’m sure there are guys like that. on, on bikes as well that are doing, that’ll do the exact same thing where they’ll adapt to what it’s giving them, but then they’re gonna go and they’re gonna make it better.

And there’s some guys that can only do one of those. There are some guys that can only adapt and then they have no idea what to tell the engineer what to communicate to the engineers to make it better. And then there’s some that only know how to communicate to the engineers who try to make it better, but they don’t know how to ring every last little inch, every last little hundreds of a second out of it when it’s not optimal.

You know? And the, the r the guys that are the guys girls, the, the fish that are the best, that the best of the best. They do both. I like, I love it because if you think about it, the adaptable person, I mean, as you I was listening to, I love what you just said, I think it’s brilliant is as I was listening to, I envisioned the adaptable athlete moving in a positive direction, dropping their lap times.

Finding their turn in points, maximizing their inputs and outputs, whatever, whatever you wanna call it, they’re improving while they’re still, they’re, they’re still knowing that there is something better, but they know that now is not the time to focus on what’s better. Whereas the athlete that doesn’t let go, and it goes back to what you said earlier about letting go basically, right.

Your emotional attachment is like, wait a minute, this isn’t the way I want it to be. This isn’t what I expected. This is what I predicted. And what happens is that athlete is almost like, I imagine like two different rubber bands. I imagine that super thick, not as wide rubber band for the person that can’t let go, that tries to do better and then they get sucked back.

They try to do better, they get sucked back. But then that other person, it’s almost. , maybe they don’t even have an, an elastic band. They have like an adjustable band where they’re like, Hey, I’m not breaking free from the fact that I know that I need less grip or I need more toe in, uh, whatever. Right?

Mm-hmm. . Um, but in the mean, like, now’s not the time when you think about, I’m gonna grow and I’m gonna do my best and then I’m gonna circle back to this when it’s time. Yeah. So I love how you said that. That’s It’s so true. Isn’t that I didn’t say it. Remember I didn’t say it. Derek Daley said it. I just read it and remembered it and agreed.

He didn’t say it to me. You do . No, I don’t care about this guy. . He sounds amazing. Gotta make extra credit his where credit’s due. Yeah, he sounds amazing. And we’ll give him credit, but I have not had sushi with him and I have not hung out with him. I’m hanging out with you. So to me, like you’re the, you’re the, the, the guy who’s bringing the information to me, so Sounds good.

And, and, and I appreciate that you like sushi. So we’re, we’re good on the whole most Chipotle thing. As long as we can agree. Sushi is where it’s at. Yes. And I will also say that I went for happy hour Sushi, uh, last week. And I w so I went in like an odd time. I, cuz my , I can’t, you know, I, I don’t care. Like midnight.

Like what? No, the other end. I know I do. I can’t stay at, at three 30 you went for 3:30 PM dinner. Three 30 I think it was exactly three 30. Yes. So I walk in at three 30 and I, I told my girlfriend, I’m like, you know, hey meet me there cuz she was at her place. I’m at mine. I’m like, Hey, let’s meet for sushi.

We’ll do happy hour. Try to cut our price in half because this place is so good. You just can’t stop ordering. You know, you like purge. So it was so cool cause we walked in there and then who did I bump into? My pseudo sister, my best friend in high school’s, sister with her husband who this guy. The coolest of the cool.

And then they’d bring their two, even just as equally cool friends. And so I am, so my last sushi experience was half off twice the fun, actually triple the fun and uh, had a great time. And I ate early enough. So by the time I went to sleep, I didn’t go to bed with that full stomach where you gotta like prop up like 18 pillows behind your head so you don’t, you know, have your stomach.

Yep. Slosh your chin. No, I it, whatever. Anyways, . I know that one. Yeah. . I know that one. Unfortunately. . Yeah, exactly. I do too. So, um, I love, I love that you have this pursuit for the mental game. So I, I kind of wanted to shift gears a little bit, see how I did that oval shift gears. See on the fly. On the fly. Um, so making adjustments.

I like it. Yeah, yeah. I can adapt, I can adapt. if they don’t have what I want on the sushi menu at half off. And that didn’t make the item list. Yeah, I struggled to adapt there, but otherwise I’m pretty good. . So you’ve raised yourself, I wanna ask you this, I think this, I’m very curious to see how you respond to this.

What, because I, since we’re going down the mental road, let’s maybe stay there a little bit longer. Um, and feel free to venture off into the physical if you, if, if you’d like as well. Okay. I’m just curious. So when you compete yourself, and it’s interesting because I, as a mental coach, coach myself in real time.

Like, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been like, okay, are you going to say this thing that you probably shouldn’t say are, are you gonna say it? And then I say, Hmm, yeah. But at least I create the space and I think about it. I made the decision and then I make that mm-hmm. , and then I say that thing that I probably shouldn’t have said with you as someone who knows.

Fitness, you know, the mental game, uh, quite a bit. And you have this unique perspective where you have the knowledge and the experience where you can give the advice. But what’s interesting is now all of a sudden it’s like, Hey, Trey, throw this outfit on, throw this helmet on. You know, um, throw the gloves on.

You’re, you’re competing. Mm-hmm. , have you, what have you noticed are your biggest strengths in the car as a driver? And where do you feel you need to improve?

Oh, I love it. All right. So one of the things that I used to not be very good at that I feel like I’ve improved quite a bit. I wouldn’t necessarily say I’m at the top by any means, but, um, one of the things that I recognize as something that was important, and I preach a lot, so I made sure I. practiced it as well is the, the self-compassion.

I used to be very hard on myself that extremely hard on myself. And, um, it’s, it’s funny because one of the things that happened very early on, and I think it took me a little while to really realize how, how big of a moment this was and how important it was. Uh, I was maybe like, I don’t know, seven or eight years old playing peewee basketball.

And, um, I had a, I just, awful game. Like, just complete shit game and yeah, I was like eight, so what did it really matter? Right? But I had a terrible game and I was supposed to be one of the stars of the team and all this kind of stuff. And you know, back when, back when I had no idea that I was gonna end up only being five five, um, and actually could play basketball , but had this terrible game and my dad sees me like moping around.

And, um, you know, just for context, we, we lived in la so this was LA in the early nineties. and he comes up to me and he says, he said, what’s wrong? I was like, that was terrible. That was a terrible game. What do you mean what’s wrong? Like, I just, I played awful. And he was like, he’s like, yeah, dude, even Magic Johnson has off nights.

And that thought that the best of the best have off nights had never even occurred to me and . So I was, I was eight, so it didn’t sink in totally at, at that point. But when I started racing a little bit later on, I kind of, I would find myself like, thinking back to that whenever I had bad race, I’m like, man, even Magic Johnson has bad games.

So that just kind of like clicked, you know, eventually it didn’t click immediately, but it, it clicked eventually that like, man, I, I can try my hardest to be at my absolute very best every single time. And it just isn’t gonna happen, dude. Like, It’s, and that’s okay. Like that’s fine. As long as you keep trying to be at your best every time and putting the proper practices in place to do it.

You’re going to be at your best more often than if you hadn’t done all that other stuff. But you still have to be okay with the fact that you’re gonna have an off race like it’s going to happen. There’s, you can’t be your absolute 100% best every single time, otherwise you’re not maximizing your own skills if that’s the case.

Like you’re, you’re at like 90% or 95% or something like that. So, to me, ha, practicing that self-compassion and being okay with not being okay with, but moving on from a mistake in the, in the car. I’ve got much, much better at that as I progressed in my career. Not even progressed in my career, but did more and more of these 24 hour races, especially in a 24 hour race.

Like nobody can be perfect for 24 straight hours. Like that’s, that’s asking too much that expectation. is too high, right? You can’t have the expectation of being perfect for 24 straight hours, especially if you’re literally the one going for 24 straight hours, like no sleep, you know, no rest, whatever.

Like, you’re not going to be perfect for that whole time. So I think understanding that is an area where, where I got much, much better at, um, in terms of, of still weaknesses. Um, I, man, I don’t know. I think I, it, it’s, it’s tough for me to, it’s tough for me to say because, um, one of the things I did have with self-awareness, and I did realize that my talent level just wasn’t, I’m not gonna get, I’m not gonna be a professional driver.

Like, I realize that. And, um, you know, I’ve, I’ve obviously found a way to, to make my impact on the sport in a different way and still have meaning and purpose. And I, I, you know, I love being able to, to be in this role and still be a part of this sport. But I think as a driver I always, you know, not from the get go.

Cuz obviously when you first start like, oh man, I’m gonna, I’m gonna do this like this is it. Finally get to do what I know I’m gonna be the absolute best at. And then realizing like, oh, okay, I’m, I’m, I’m good, but I’m not like, great, so okay, no, no worries. I can still have fun doing this. I can still enjoy it.

I can still find meaning and purpose in it. And um, you know, I never really got to the point where I had to like really dig deep for, uh, you know, a big weakness. But I think the biggest one in my past was that self-compassion is now one of my strengths. Yeah. And it’s huge. And you know what’s interesting is if you take, and I didn’t even realize this until I was listening to you, is if you take self-compassion and you bring it so.

the self-compassion that you’re talking about is more like, Hey, um, the eight year old version of yourself, Hey, we go to this game, you’re there for two, three hours, whatever the math is, the drive home, you get home, you’re beating yourself up. And so it’s like a matter of hours. Mm-hmm. . And then it’s stopping and thinking like, oh, maybe I should be more self-compassionate.

What’s interesting is if you take that self-compassion and then you shrink it down and you shrink it down till it’s that big and you say, okay, um, I’m a basketball player. I just shot a three, and we had momentum, right? So momentum for the last 29 seconds got points, and here I am, and then the vibe of the team is good.

We’re finally shifting. We’re about to start beating this team. We’re about to completely shift a momentum. I take my three i, I am not even close. It’s like there needs to be self-compassion in that micro. Slice of a moment, right? And that’s what I mean on track is like you make a, you dip a wheel, right?

You in, in, in Moda, you get a little squirly going through the whoops or something like that. Yep. And you lose a second. You better have that immediate self-compassion. Or you’re losing more than just that, just that second, you’re losing two or three seconds cuz now you’re thinking about it, blah, blah, blah.

No immediate self-compassion. And I also, I also believe that for the, the people who are truly, you know, let’s call it mentally tough, right? The people, the, it’s what everybody loves to call it, uh, momentum’s bullshit. So I like it. Why? Why do you need momentum? Why, why is it necessary? Why do you need it? If you miss a shot, just come back, shoot the next one, right?

Like if you, if you miss an apex or a breaking point or whatever, like you just nail it on the next one. You don’t need momentum. Like just. Do it . It’s so true. You can, it’s almost like a prediction error, right? It’s like the disappointment comes because it’s like, well, wait a minute, Trey. Like, I’m, I’m looking back right now, and for the last seven minutes I crushed it.

So how is it even possible in this minute moment right now that I’m not, it’s like we’re, we’re almost like a, we have an, I always say that we have an addiction or prediction and the predictions that we make are always by looking back and then projecting that forward. But that’s actually not accurate.

Yeah. You know, I, I, I agree and I think, like you said, if you, if you just crush the last seven minutes and then you make one tiny little mistake, why are you worried about that one tiny little mistake? Just keep going forward, crush the next seven minutes. You know, it’s, and that was something that I, that I really tried to emphasize when I’m in, when I’m in the cart, you know, myself is.

It, it doesn’t, one little mistake, you can’t go back and fix it, so why, why worry about it? Although there was one moment, you know, I always thought that I, I always thought that I was somebody who drove better, like calm. And I think my level of fatigue had more to do with this than anything else. Cuz it was like 20 hours into a 24 hour race and I was pretty, I was getting pretty worn out and somebody ran me off the track, like literally ran me off the track.

And my brother was my, my brother was my strategist and he was on the, the radio with me. So he knows me really well and I come on the radio just fired up. I am mf and this guy that, that just ran me off the track. Oh, how you gonna run the solo off the track? What the Yeah. All the, I mean, just blowing him up and my brother comes on the radio and he goes, all right buddy, calm down.

It’s all good. Like, you know, we’re, we’re still, we’re still looking good. We’re, we didn’t lose any spots. We got four hours to go just. , you know, get yourself settled back down. And about two minutes later he comes back on the radio and he says, scratch that. Keep being pissed. You’re going faster. . And I think that was literally, I think, I honestly think that that was just my level of fatigue had gotten to a point where I hadn’t dropped a lot of time, like maybe 2, 2, 3 tenths of a second.

But the adrenaline kick that, that anger gave me, got me back to like an energy level that I could put that extra two tents back in and then it, you know, leveled back off again after a few laps. So, um, I don’t think it was necessarily an iDrive better angry kind of thing. I think it was just the anger gave me a little bit of an adrenaline spike in that moment.

But I just thought it was funny that, that that had happened because I definitely do drive better when I’m more calm. I don’t drive better frustrated, I don’t drive better angry. That’s not, that’s not, that’s not a good head space I don’t think for anybody to be in. Um, but. But yeah, I just thought that that was a, a funny thing that that happened And I, you know, cuz it goes against everything that, that I necessarily, that I believe or what, you know, you somebody like you would teach and all that kind of stuff.

But, you know, sometimes that kind of thing can happen. Yeah. And you know what’s crazy is, and, and cuz I, this, this topic resonates with me big time, especially right now. Um, I have an athlete that I’m working with and I try to get him angry. Mm-hmm. because it’s the only way that he becomes aggressive. He’s extremely kind.

He is a great human being. He’s amazing. I love this kid. Um, but when it comes to racing, he races like he’s your friend. Mm-hmm. and I’m trying to get race like the guy you’re racing against, just killed and beat up your sister. Um, and so what you start to realize is that with anger, , it’s still energy, right?

Yeah. So an anger is energy. And what’s interesting, and you know, I don’t know if you’ve ever bumped into, and if you haven’t, I’ll send it to you, but my guess, you may be bumped into it, but there’s a scale the of an emotional scale, and it has the different emotions. So at the very bottom is guilt, shame.

Well, it’s actually to be more appropriate. It’s, it’s shame. Mm-hmm. shame is the lowest. And then like, guilt is maybe a hair above it, but not really. And then you have like shame, you know, humiliation, embarrassment. They’re all enlisting this very low range of like 20 to 40 hertz they call it, right? Mm-hmm.

But what’s interesting is even if you go up to like, um, or you’re near like hope, hopeless or, um, depressed, believe it or not, if you cuz the higher up you go, the, the, the quote unquote better the emotion, the more it serves you. Um, anger is actually, I, I remember the first time I saw anger on the scale. I was like, that’s higher than I thought.

you know? And, and then I was like, wait a minute. If you are hopeless, you have no energy, you have no life. You’re stuck to the couch. Yeah. You, you can’t even get out of it. But if you’re angry, there’s at least, you know, if someone’s hopeless, anger does give you hope. There’s adrenaline there. Yeah. Yeah. But it, it says that you’ve got two roads, so you’re angry.

So you’ve got energy. Oh my God, this is great. You’ve got energy. Now what are you gonna do with it? Are you gonna self destruct or argue like, you know what, fine, this person broke off of me because I’m not in good shape. I’m going to the gym for the next three weeks until I lose 25. Boom. You know, we’ve all done that.

I mean, I, I know with me, I look a hell of a lot better after a breakup, about a month after a breakup, I could probably model, but, uh, in a relationship, you know, I, I look, it should be called relationship. Like I, you know, I just grabbed me a bag of chips, grabbing some popcorn and, you know, don’t, don’t move me.

Um, , . I don’t wanna burn a calorie. I don’t know. I, I haven’t, I have, I haven’t dealt with a breakup in 17 years, so it’s, I can’t remember what it was like, I can’t remember what I did. All right. So most people go through, uh, a divorce in their life and all that. What, what, so I’m curious, and, and I’ll share with you, I wanna hear what you say and I’m gonna share something really interesting cuz there, I’ve got two good tidbits of knowledge on this.

What do you think is the key to a, a great marriage? I don’t think it’s too dissimilar from the key to, you know, success in, in sport. One of the, one of those qualities we talked about that curiosity, right? Because one of the things that my wife and I realized a few years ago, we had been married for I think eight or nine years and we were.

we were struggling a little bit. Like, you know, we definitely still a hundred percent. The love was there. And what we realized was we were both, not to get too, too into it, but we were both trying to love the person we met as opposed to the person we had become. Interesting. We were both Trump so hard and we were missing a little bit because she had changed a little, I had changed a little and we weren’t trying to love the new person that each of us had become.

So we have to remain curious as to what is going, like what, how that, how your partner is changing, remain curious about that and remain curious as to what the solutions are. So thankfully my wife is the embodiment of Curious George. She is curious about everything and she sought out solutions for. What we were going through.

She sought it out. And we’ve, you know, we went, we talked with the counselor, we, you know, and, and it was fantastic. I mean, it just, it, it made such a huge difference. And even to this day, she’s, she’s so curious about how to express her emotions that she’s feeling and how, you know, how do I tell Trey in a way that he’s going to understand?

And, you know, even if, even if she can’t with her own words, she’ll find a way some other way. She’ll maybe send me a, send me a reel on Instagram that is putting something in a way that she’s been struggling to herself. And I think that that level of curiosity has been absolutely huge for us. And I’ll admit she’s more curious than I am, um, probably because, you know, she inevitably makes me a little happier by default than I make her

But, you know, she’s, She’s definitely better than I am , but don’t be so sure. Would she agree with that? But what would she say? What, what would she say right now to that? I think she would, she would disagree, but I think there, I think it’s just, we definitely both still have, we, we have that level of love for the other person that we want to, we both want to be better for the other person.

So, um, you know, I think we would, we would both say the same thing in that respect. And it’s not a, it’s not a self-loathing thing or anything like that. I think it’s just, it’s a, it’s a desire to still be just a better person for the other, uh, at any point. So, um, but yeah, I think that the curiosity that she’s had for finding the solution to any problem, I don’t know, problem, issue, whatever you want to call it, um, has been, has been huge for us.

I mean, that’s been a big, it’s been absolutely monumental. . Yeah. And what’s funny is you could also bring back to, to bring the conversation full, full oval is your curiosity. But then also, you know, you basically kind of inadvertently talked about being adaptable. Adaptable, yeah. A hundred percent right?

Yeah, absolutely. And so what’s interesting, what’s even more interesting is now you take this and you say, wait a minute. So are we coming to a potential conclusion that in order for me to be a better athlete, I can actually be a better husband, a better c e o, a better business owner, a better brother, a better son, father?

And it’s like the answer’s yes. Yeah, absolutely. You know, the one thing that I find fascinating and I think it’s a great, cuz I think there’s this huge stigma around, um, mental health. Uh, it’s huge because it’s my battle. , you know, I’ll hear someone and I’m like, you know, like, chase Sexton or, and I’m like, oh, like this guy, like I can help you.

Mm-hmm. , I know I can help you. And I’ve had to tame this side of me down like by about 90%. Trust me, I have the, I can help you vibe big time. Like, I like, ah, man, dude, I can do so much for you. Come on. Just . I’m trying to cover, come on, . Um, but yeah, but like you said, I mean, you, you, you know when you know, you know, cuz it’s like this is what you do.

You can see things and you know, that’s the beauty of what we do is we can see things that other people are looking at differently, you know, and we see them in a way that we can hopefully bring light to Yeah. Shifting their perspective to maybe at least take a peek through our lenses. You know, it doesn’t mean you have to wear them, but at least peek try these on and see they’re thick as bone.

But we’re talking about adapting to, we’re talking about adapting to things like. track conditions or new bikes and new cars and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. , I mean, adapting to how another human being is changing. That’s challenging in my, in my op, in my experience, that’s been a challenge. And I love this person.

It’s still not easy. And a lot of people, you hear, a lot of people say, like, you know, oh, I, I I, how many times have you had, or have you seen the examples of a couple say, I love you, but you’ve changed? Well, no shit. , over a decade everybody’s gonna change. That’s so true. Yeah. I mean, come on. So it changed, you know, you change well, duh, and now, so yeah, learn to love the person that they’ve become and you know, yeah, some people may change for the, for the worst, some people may change for the better, blah, blah, blah.

But uh, when you break it down to that man adapting to adapting to. A new track condition or you know, a few ruts, getting a little bit deeper. It sounds so simple now, doesn’t it? ? It does. You know, we should tag a couple maybe top 10 athletes, you know? I don’t know. Maybe. I don’t know. Fed, go for it. We can’t tag him.

Djokovic’s mental game is dialed. I follow him. He’s he, he wa If you guys wanna idolize someone, I don’t care what sport you’re in, I don’t care. Even if you hate tennis, keep an eye on Novak Djokovic. Mm-hmm. , you listen to his interviews, like he, he is Got it. Very, very interesting. But, you know, so what’s interesting too, so I wanna go back to what you just said is, you know, you had said, well hey, you know, it might be a little tougher in a relationship, right?

Is that not what you said? Yeah. More challenging. I think like, you know, more challenging in a relationship. That’s definitely a challenging thing to adapt to. , the fact that somebody, another human being is changing their emotions or changing and things like that. Like it’s, that can be a challenge even if you, even if you really love that person.

Like it’s not, I don’t think it’s a knock, I don’t think it’s saying that that person’s difficult or anything like that. It’s just other peop other people change and you may have some expectation, right? You may have that expectation of what they are, what they should be, and then they may not match completely with that.

So it’s, so you have to adapt. So, yeah, I think that that’s, I think that that is, that is a challenge. And I think you, I think sim similar to there being a stigma on mental health, I think there’s a stigma on, you know, getting help in a relationship. And there’s a stigma to, I think, to a certain extent, to change, you know, to, to, to being willing to adapt, especially for men.

You know, it’s easy for, it’s easy, it’s easy for men to get called, you know, pansies or bitches or pussies or whatever you wanna call it when they’re trying to be a better husband for their wife or a better boyfriend for their girlfriend. I mean, yeah, that, there’s huge stigma there, which there shouldn’t be.

I mean, obviously it’s, that’s what we should all be doing. Yes. And we should all be valuing our mental health. But unfortunately there is that stigma there. Oh, for sure. So, all right, let me, let me cha, let me challenge your narrative on a, having a spouse to adapt to them. Changing is hard. What if I, so I wanna see Challenging.

Challenging. So what if I just gave you that one word, acceptance. Mm-hmm. . And you injected it in that narrative. Does it change? No. It’s still a challenge cuz you can accept. , you can accept that they’ve changed, but then your behaviors have to have to adapt as well. Right? Like you can, acceptance is a key part of it.

Like that’s important. But then that doesn’t necessarily mean that you can just then go about doing the same thing you’ve been doing for the last 10 years or whatever. It’s like there’s still, um, you know, what, what that person wants from you has changed. So even if you accept it, you still need to adapt.

You still need to figure out how your behaviors need to change and adapt to, to help make, make that situation, make that partnership continue forward in a, in a, in a good way. So, yeah, I, I think acceptance, you definitely have to, if there is no acceptance, you, you’re fucked. I mean, that’s . That’s true.

That’s, that is a fact. Step one, right. In in any that is fact

Alright, so let me ask you, this is change. is change hard? Some change is and some change isn’t. Yeah. What’s the difference between hard and easy and when it comes to change? Well, I mean, there’s always like a, there’s always a a a scale, right? There’s a spectrum of, of change and some changes are easy to make.

Some changes are more difficult to make. And you know, there’s, there’s a lot of factors that can go into that. How, you know, how deep rooted a habit is. Like, it’s hard to break a bad habit, right? Especially if it’s something that’s been around for a very, very long time with you. It’s doable, but it could be difficult.

Um, and then there are certain things that, you know, maybe have more meaning to you than others, or certain things that have less meaning to you than others. Like, you know, if my wife came home and she’s like, I want you to park on the other side of the driveway, I’d be like, all right, done. Cool. No problem.

Not a big deal, but. If there’s something that’s more deep-rooted to what I am as a human being, who I am as a human being, that’s gonna be a little bit tougher. I’m gonna still try, unless I completely d disagree with it. But you mean to tell me you’re Trey, that you’re the type of man that just lets your woman walk all over you?

Yeah. A hundred percent . And hence the reason why you’re still married for 17 years. You know what? You know what? You know why I let her walk all over me? Because she never would. Oh, if I married somebody who would never walk all over me. So I don’t even have to make that decision. Oh, I like that. I don’t, I don’t even have to make that decision.

I love that dude. That dude, that was like a knowledge bomb. There’s some guy on YouTube whenever someone says something like this, there’s a little bomb. You ever see that guy, Brad, Leah or something like that? Oh shit, up right now. This would be like a knowledge bomb. He’d be like, go and they’d be like, boom.

And there’d be for a little bit . Um, I love that. Yeah. And you know what’s interesting is you, you brought up a subject that is very powerful, um, that I don’t, I, I’m shocked that people don’t talk about this. I talk about it all the time, is what is the meaning that you give something because nothing has meaning until you give meaning to it.

So your wife says, Hey, I wanna park on the left side and not the right side anymore. And literally it comes down to, well, what does that mean? And then also you can maybe go another step and say, and how important is it? Because it’s kind of a function of both, right? Mm-hmm. , if it means that you are this or that, or you’re succumbing to a woman, whatever, foolish thing, someone could come up, that’s one thing.

But then you also have to add or stack on like the level of importance to that. So if you could just modulate meaning and importance, I mean, it’s insanely powerful. Mm-hmm. , you know, just those two metrics. Um, what are your thoughts on that? Well, I,

I think there are things that are l Let me do it, let me talk about it as an example. If, and she wouldn’t do this, but if she ever came to me and she said, um, I, I, I don’t want you. Being a business owner anymore. I don’t want you doing this job anymore. I want you to, I want you to stop. That’s very meaningful to me, right?

Like that’s something that is, that is, has meaning and importance and purpose and value in my life. And that’s a much different conversation than parking on the other side of the driveway, right? So the, I don’t know, the me the meeting and importance, that’s something that I don’t know, it’s almost like circular logic, trying to, trying to define it.

Well, what you’re just talking about is you, so, so let me add this. When you gave that example, the first place my mind went as a mental performance coach is I said now it’s a difference from just taking a spot to changing your identity, your sense of self, your ego. Yeah. That is like the core, you know, so that, that’s like going for the core, you know?

And then what’s interesting is someone could very easily in that case be like, whoa, if you love me. , wouldn’t you do anything? It’s like, well, hold up. You want me to basically take my identity? Mm-hmm. , which, and I, I actually struggled with this a little bit as well, because before the pandemic, I was a full-time eye doctor with a private practice.

Mm-hmm. . And now all of a sudden, you know, I got my scrubs, I got my thing, I walk into here and there, and everyone’s like, doctor, doctor, doctor, you know, and then all of a sudden I was like, you know what? I’m done. I’m done. And then like, I went and I knew it was coming because on the, I had a side hustle of being a mental performance coach.

And I said, you know what, man? What would you ra if you woke up tomorrow and you made the same amount of money? Which, which job would you rather go to? And I couldn’t finish the sentence or the question rather, and I already had my answer. And I’m like, well, there you. But what was interesting is my sense of identity was my biggest challenge.

It wasn’t getting more clients. It wasn’t, am I good enough? It wasn’t how am I gonna help people? It was like, oh wow. You know? Cuz people would be like, wait, so you mean it? Tell me, you did something for 22 years. You spent 300 grand to get two letters and a.in front of your name and you’re just gonna let that go.

And it was an identity crisis. And you see this with athletes that retire. Mm-hmm. . And that’s why you have to be careful because if all you are is an athlete, all you are is a professional athlete and you are nothing above and beyond that, then who then by default, who are you when you retired? You’re nothing.

Yeah. And that’s a dangerous game. And that’s why you see Michael Phelps, I don’t know if you know this, but he struggled with mental health when he retired and that’s exactly why. Yeah. I, it’s, and I’ve thought about that before and it’s, it’s, it’s, I don’t know if this is odd or good or bad or indifferent or what, but it’s actually something like.

Don’t relate to. I was an engineer. I was an engineer for 10 years, and I had zero, I mean zero identity crisis when I came to switching careers. None, none whatsoever. . I just, I, I really loved engineering. I was having fun doing it. I somehow discovered this. I wanted to do it instead. And it was the same way where I, I, I could answer the question before I was finished asking it, if given the same amount of money, would I rather do this or this?

And the answer was this, I make less money now than I did as an engineer. And I still love this a lot. I I still love this. Um, so it, but there was no, there was no identity crisis. And I even had this conversation with my business partner and it was like, he said, if you had to, if you had to stop doing this tomorrow, what would you do?

And I’m like, . I don’t know. I’d find something , you know, it’s just . I figure it out. figure it out. You’d find a way. I’d find something. Yeah, you’d find something. Yeah. I mean, thankfully, I don’t know if, like I said, I don’t know if it’s good, bad, indifferent, right, wrong. I don’t know. But my, I my identity has never necessarily been tied directly to what I do for a living.

It is much more, it is much closer connected now than it was when I was an engineer. I feel mm-hmm. . Um, I do, I do find more of a sense of purpose doing this than I did in engineering, which I did. Again, I, we were doing contract work for the Navy. I, I had a very big sense of pride doing what I was doing, but not nearly as much of a sense of purpose as, as I do now with, with this.

Um, but at the same time, if, you know, if, if our business was blown up literally, and we didn’t have. We didn’t have insurance or something and we couldn’t keep going. I, I’d find something to do. I, you know, I, I’d, I’d be able to figure it out. And you’d adapt. I would adapt. Yeah. I, and not, not to say like, oh man, I’m this expert at adapting.

I just, it’s what I would do. Yeah. And I, I mean, it’s interesting because if you think about it Yeah. You, you, you, anyone, and adapting, if you think about it, it’s just you find a way. Yeah. You know, it’s like, well, you know, what are we gonna do? It’s like, we’ll find a way. Well, we’re broken down in the middle of nowhere, find a way, you know?

And you just find a way. And I think sometimes we get so caught up in the how. , you know, especially as someone who’s started multiple businesses and multiple digital businesses, so many people get caught up in the how, you know, like, think about losing weight. Like to me, if you wanna lose weight here, I got an idea.

Burn more calories than you take in, eat less and, and move more like c you know, like, isn’t that like, to me that seems like it works. Maybe it’s too simple. People, people can’t even handle, it’s, it’s a pretty solid start. . Yeah. It’s a good solid start, right? You, you know, there’s more to it, obviously, but the more complicated you make things, and the bigger they are, the more they weigh on your mind, the more they weigh on your shoulders and the less likely you are to take action.

So it’s, well it’s, it’s why the, it’s why the phrase making a mountain out of a molehill exists. Yeah, exactly. Like you’re, you’re creating this mo this mountain, when really it’s just this tiny little bump that you, all you gotta do is step over it. Yeah. It’s so true. And, and you’re there, you’re done. You know, you’re, you’re on the right, you’re on the path.

Like, it’s literally just the start of the path. But, uh, but yeah, it’s very easy for us. because we all don’t know what, what we don’t know. And it’s easy to make the assumption that we don’t know something. It’s easy to make the assumption that we don’t know how to lose weight from where we’re at. We don’t, we don’t know the process.

So that’s an easy cop out, it’s an easy excuse as opposed to being curious and going and seeking out what the solution is. It’s easier to just be like, well, I don’t know. Um, I’ll maybe, I’ll, I’ll maybe consult somebody who, who does, um, and see what, see what that’s like a k a go to a personal trainer or go to a nutritionist.

Um, but then, you know, they, they put another mountain in front of you of work, right? They say, oh, well, okay, it’s gonna take working out this many times a week and eating this, eating this diet or something like that. It’s like, whoa, whoa, there’s another mountain. But at the same time, You gotta eat every day anyway, don’t you?

So why not eat something just a little bit different from what you’ve, you’ve been eating and you need to get from point A to point B. Uh, why not add a little bit? Why not add a few steps in between? You know, it’s when you, when you break it down, it really isn’t this mountain, but it’s easy to make it look like one.

And you probably know a lot more about that in terms of like how the human brain works and why that is. But it’s, it’s easier to say, oh, I don’t know. And then when you do go talk to somebody who does know, it’s easier, it’s easy to say, well, that seems like a lot. Yeah. And we, if you ever get a chance, I don’t know if you’ve looked these up, but if you look up the cognitive biases, you know, we talk about catastrophizing.

Mm-hmm. , we talk about generalizing, we talk about magnifying, and these are all very closely related, but slightly different. We even talk about mental filtering. Uh, there’s a whole bunch of biases. There’s like maybe 10 big ones, or I should say maybe five big ones, 10 primary ones, but there’s probably another 15 after that of just these tendencies that the human brain has.

And when you talk about self-compassion, it’s nice to be aware of cognitive biases, because that’s a tool I use to help people with self-compassion is I’m like, well, wait a minute. , there’s you, the human brain, the your mind, and then there’s you, the observer. You know? And I always like to look at it as like, you know, every now and then I try to observe myself.

I try to get, you know, and, and, and it’s funny because I, I like to actually have a very precise, like, all right, I’m gonna be about six inches above and like three or four feet behind. And I try to observe myself almost like remotely and be like, Hmm, why did I respond that way? Wait, why did I react that way?

Is this a cognitive bias? Am I blowing this out of proportion? And we tend to minify our success, but manif our failures. We tend to take one thing that goes wrong and make it bigger than it is, you know, we need to, we tend to say, well, you know, um, today, you know, I, I, I woke up and you know what? The alarm didn’t go off.

And then after that I had no coffee. And I was like, you know what? What’s coming next? ? It’s like, , where do you, you know, it’s like, you gotta be aware of that. Yeah. Program running. And, and what’s crazy is it’s not even you. This is like human race. And so the, that’s why the compassion is so easy when you start to dip into these cognitive biases because you realize it doesn’t matter whether you’re black, white, tall, short skin, like, it doesn’t matter your age.

Like these, this is part of the human brain. Mm-hmm. . And so that’s a good tool for self-compassion if anyone’s looking to look into those. It’s really powerful stuff. I’m in. I’m, I’m interested. I’m, I’m looking into it. Yeah. I’ll send you some stuff. So, yeah, I wanna, I wanna look up on that. I don’t want to be the reason that your 17 year old relationship, you know, turns into a, well, why were you home so late tonight?

So before I let you go, already told her I’d be home late tonight. , like Jay, I already told her I was. Yeah. I was like, man, I’m talking to Jay tonight. This is, this is gonna be a good chat. I’m putting, I’m putting time aside for it. , this is great. Here. I was gonna ask you about like different muscles and all this fitness stuff.

Outfit. We just went like off, we went down a whole different road. I don’t have way new cards. It was real. Like I, I’m, I, I know when we, we got something good and I think that this is gonna be something that people are gonna be very grateful for. Um, so what I want to do to wrap things up, um, I wanted to hear from you and we’ll wrap it up with this, is when you look back on your career as a program director, uh, a coach trainer, since you left being an engineer, what’s like the one, is there like a moment?

or a skill that you’ve trained or was there an athlete? What’s like that one thing that you look back that just fuels you, that you’re just so proud of and you look back and you’re like, just that alone makes it all worth it? Man, I, it’s, it’s definitely more than one thing, but I, for one, I, I love seeing the guys and girls we work with succeed, have success.

I love seeing them do what they do best and enjoying it. I wanna see them enjoy it. I wanna see them love it. I wasn’t good enough to be a professional racing driver, but I love this sport and I want to do something that, that I wouldn’t say has an impact, but that benefits the sport. And I love seeing my drivers succeed, but at the same time,

One of the things that we’ve, that we have, I think the opportunity to do in here is make, is make drivers safer as well. We can make them more fit, but we can also make them safer. And that’s a huge, huge motivating factor for me. And if it, if it can be just one person that’s less injured than they would’ve been in an accident, then you know, I’ve done my job.

Right. And I don’t want it to be just one, I want it, obviously I don’t want people to get into, get into Rex on track, but I want there to be this, just this notion of somebody’s been, somebody’s better off because they came in and worked with me. Somebody has enjoyed a better career or a better life, or just they’re better off because they walk through my door and.

that’s what motivates me every to get up every, you know, the whole cliche, it motivates me to get up every morning and, and, and put in the work. All that, all that kind of crap. I want people to be better off because they came in here. I love that. Yeah. That resonates for sure. And it’s interesting because you, you know, as I was listening to, I also myself, like my left foot doesn’t go up, it’s paralyzed from a motorcycle accident.

So I have nerve damage where my left foot doesn’t go up. And so that killed my career in motocross, uh, was, you know, one of the things that did it. And so what’s interesting is I think that we’re on a very similar trajectory because there’s that part of me that’s like, well, if I can’t, if I can’t get my fix of being that guy, which I know I cannot, then how can I be the one that supports and how can be that one degree of separation that gets someone where they need to go?

And I think it’s interesting how. With a lot of people, your pain becomes your passion, you know? And it’s, and, and it really can fuel you, you know, cuz it’s so emotionally charged. So let me ask you this. If someone’s, so, if someone’s looking to connect with you for either maybe some fitness advice, fitness tips, who knows, maybe some marriage tips.

You might have a little side hustle going on here. . Um, I’m not gonna claim to be anywhere close to qualified to do. That’s . Yeah. But your results, man, you got results. But that, that’s like saying Eli Tomac can’t give coaching advice. Yeah. Cause he’s never coached before. Well, he is. Got the titles, he’s got the numbers.

Dude, you got the results. 17 years. That’s fine. I, I got the results because my partner in the game is the best. There is . All right, I like that. I like that. We need to, we need to clip. And send it to your wife the next time. Maybe you park in a parking spot, . But, um, if someone wants to reach out to you and, and, you know, I didn’t ask you this yet.

If someone wants to reach out to you, one, what’s the best way to get in contact? And then two, are you just working with like, professional athletes, amateur athletes only motor sports? Or like, let’s say that I’m in the, you know, Charlotte, North Carolina area or Cornelius, right? Isn’t that the exact, yeah, so we’re, we’re in Cornelius, which is just north of Charlotte.

It’s, it’s around the Lake Norman area. Okay. So basically it’s kind of halfway between Mooresville where most of the shops are based. And Charlotte itself near the, near the lake, it’s, it’s a good central location for the whole Charlotte metropolitan area. So can someone that just wants fitness in general come to you?

Or, or No? Um, they can, our prices might be a little bit high for what they’re, what they’re looking for. Mm-hmm. . Um, so we generally, it’s. Right now it’s all motor sports athletes. Uh, we work with a handful of drivers and then also, uh, uh, a couple of pit crews as well. And the same as the case up in, in Indianapolis.

So, um, we have worked with other athletes in the past, though I’ve worked with softball players. Hockey players, um, you know, so it’s not exclusive to motorsports, just obviously that’s like the niche that we’ve built. So it’s, it’s not necessarily a, um, that you have to be a driver, but that is our specialty.

So, mm-hmm. , uh, I did, I played baseball all through high school, so, you know, my, my love of and knowledge of baseball still exists a little bit and it was, it was fun to work with a, a softball player for a little while, especially on the, on the neurocognitive side. Um, but yeah, if, if somebody is looking to come in and get some training, though, they don’t necessarily have to be a driver, but, uh, but like I said, I, if it’s, if it’s general population, the prices might be a little high for what they’re looking for.

But if you’re another athlete, then. then. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, myself and, and my coach Adam here, um, you know, we can, we can take on other sports no problem. That’s, that’s not a , that’s, it’s not a restricting thing for us. I love it. How do we find you? Uh, so if you wanna get in touch with me, I’m at Trey Shannon on Instagram.

That’s usually the best, best way to get to me. Um, but if you’re looking for pit fitt, we’re at Pit Fit Inc. On both Instagram and, and Twitter. Uh, you can go to our website, pit fitt.com. I like it. Dude, that was so much. We have to do this again. Oh, a hundred percent. That was two easy. Wait, wait. You were planning on us doing this just once.

I will adapt

I will let go from my attachment of thinking that this is only gonna be once and I will adapt and we’ll do it again. And I will not focus too far in the future. But I will be present right now and will enjoy our current conversation a hundred percent. But. After the lights go out, I am gonna think into the future about the next time we talk.

Sounds plan. Trey, thank you so much for your time. That that just went in a, in a wonderful direction. Uh, I’m really excited to hear some of the feedback. I’m sure people are gonna get some great nuggets from this. So thank you so much for your time and sharing some really, you know, powerful thoughts and, and topics that I just more people need to talk about.

Thank you so much, dude, Jay, thank you. That was, that was so much fun. I love it. And, and can’t wait to do it again. All right. Sounds good, brother. We’ll talk soon. Take care. Awesome. Have a good one.