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Podcast Transcript

 Drew, you work with different types of athletes and I’m so curious to know what is the difference in a training session or even a training program between someone who races, let’s say Snow Cross, which I know you work with some pro athletes there. Mm-hmm. , but then also you’ve got Supercross. So elite athletes, top of their game would love to hear the difference in training between the two.

Yeah. The, the biggest difference that I’ve found is the time. So Snow cross your, your longest race is gonna be around 12 minutes. We’re obviously with Moto and Supercross. You’re looking at like the 16, 20 minute and then 35 minute mark. So with Snow Cross, we’re working with a heavier machine, so we’re doing a little bit more strength trend imp implies.

But we’re training for a shorter duration where with Moto we’re working a little bit more endurance, just cuz you have that longer. Gotcha. And by the way, guys, we’re here with Drew Whitehead, who is a fitness trainer in, it’s called Momentum Tally, right? Yep. And that is in Tallahassee, Florida, correct?

That is correct. I’m down here in Tallahassee in the the new Moto Mecca. The New Moto Me. Yeah. And what, what Drew’s referring to, for those of you that may not know is um, I don’t know, maybe what, 15 minutes from downtown Tallahassee. You’re so thereabouts. Yeah. Um, they’re a legend if you are not, uh, aware of motocross, Supercross, a legend.

Ricky Carmichael had what was called the Goat Farm because they were actually goats there. I don’t know if they’re there now, but Okay. Yeah, they were quite. Yeah, . And so, um, when Ricky retired, his mom actually continued for years to put on classes and actually had athletes, like one of your athletes, Kevin Morans was there.

Um, Seth Ham Hamaker, and, uh, a couple other athletes would go through and, and get training from Jeanie Carmichael, who was Ricky Carmichael, the. , um, his mom. Yeah. And then Star Yamaha came in and recently bought the property and is now, uh, really ramped up their program now that they have their own facility, their own track.

And it’s only 15 minutes from you. So what’s interesting is have you been able to tap into that resource of having your facility is so close to Star Yamaha or is it kind of hard to get into that program just because they’ve already got a personal trainer that works with their group of guys? Uh, no it hasn’t because I have a great relationship with Jeanie Carmichael, um, through the years when I was working on their fitness and she was there on the track with ’em.

So right when Star came in, they’re also Jeanie’s also helping them and Garris Swan Pool. So Swanee reached out to me immediately said, We need a gym to go to when we’re off the bike. And most of the guys live down here in Tallahassee, so they actually train at my facility every week. So it’s been awesome to have the star crew as a part of our program here, along with the athletes that I work with.

Oh, nice. So just curious, you’ve got the different athletes that all have come from a different background and they’ve all now come to one facility with Star Yamaha. Do you find that even though Suwanee might be involved in managing some of their programs, do you find that they’re all starting to merge into one very similar program?

Or do you find that each and every one of them kind of has their own unique style and likes to bring their own kind of, uh, personality, if you will, to their, to their workouts and their training? Yeah, the, the way that I see it is they are on. A program that’s as a team and they work together very well like that.

But in the, in the sport of Moto, we’re working around injuries all the time. So also, depending on the injury, depending on if they’re racing East coast or west coast, depending on if they’re racing next weekend or have two weeks till they race again, um, it is an individualized team program. And here at Momentum we also have, uh, real recovery.

So I have a doctor of physical therapy, so it’s been good to have the guys work with our physical therapists as well on injuries and things like that. Yeah. And especially motocross Super Cross, it’s not a matter of if, it’s definitely a matter of when. So in addition to the recovery side that you guys have, and now you have actually a doctor on site that can help with that process, how, how do you manage.

I’m, I just dealt with, uh, from tennis and M Mc l injury, and then a couple days later I threw out my back really bad, Ashley. It was probably the worst I’ve ever done it, so I was basically useless for a little bit, but then I, I also was at a very good point in my program where I was like, wow, I’m, I’m getting fit.

I’m getting there. Like I, I’m in a good place. Mm-hmm. , and then it was just like, stop . How do you manage the training of someone? Because you know, obviously if there’s other parts that can move and, and be worked, I mean, are we just shifting our focus and momentum to another body part or another area? Like let’s say for example, it’s a knee injury.

Are you just moving to upper body only, or what does that look like for Yeah, it’s 100% a. Very rarely are you gonna be not training through an injury, um, in the sport of snow cross motocross, Supercross. So most of the time we’re just making the shift to working what we can while we can and where we can.

So, you know, if we’re working with an A C L injury, we’re with a physical therapist to rehab the a c l doing corrective exercise and rehab exercise. But on the upper body it’s go time and we’re working on upper body strength endurance, and you’re gonna see a lot of moto athletes using equipment. Maybe not exactly how it’s meant to be, but because that’s how we can use it.

So, uh, for example, instead of doing cardio on a bike, you’re gonna be sitting on a chair on a ski machine using that upper body for cardio. Oh, interesting. Mm-hmm. , I like that. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And, and so with the guys that you’re, you’ve been working with recently, um, . I believe that how you do anything is how you do everything.

And so one thing that I test, and also as a mental performance coach, it’s also something I dip into a little bit with my athletes when they hit the gym, is really being focused, being present. Um, I sometimes will even test myself going into a version of like warrior mode before I even go into the gym.

Uh, once I get out of the car and I close the door and I walk to the gym, I walk as if I’m walking into battle. Mm-hmm. , just to test drive it and kind of play with the level of intensity they have during my workout. And it works like gold. I’m curious to see with you. I just feel like it’s easy for people, and I’ve heard people do this before, I’ve even caught my own athletes doing it, where it’s like, oh, I just want to get my workout in.

Which that phrase drives me insane. Mm-hmm. , because if you’re just trying to get a workout in. . Just stay home, have some popcorn, maybe do a TV dinner if they still exist anymore. If not, maybe you can have someone deliver one. But why? Why are you even here? Like you have to, how you do anything is how you do everything.

So my question to you is, how do you get the most out of a workout? Not just the workout itself, but maybe give me a little bit of like, how can you frame it and what do you do to guide your athletes to maybe get two to 3% more of a workout than they would if they just went into check the box? Yeah. Uh, one is it needs to be me.

Which is a huge part of a program that, uh, most people don’t have, is they know what they’re gonna do. They have a workout, but they don’t measure it. So you don’t know what you did last time versus what you’re doing this time. So having a measurable workout that you can do that you repeat over and over, or knowing what your heart rates are, your heart rate zones, there’s many ways we can measure a workout, but having intention for the workout to make that progress over.

The last one is, for me, the biggest part as a coach is if I’m with them in person, I know that they’re making progress. Or even if they’re online and they’re in a different state, like my snow cross guy, Nick, he’s up in Wisconsin, we have stats that we measure. I log in after every workout, check his data and know if he’s giving it that percentage that he needs to, or if he didn’t and if he didn’t, it’s all on paper and we know it.

And if he did, it normally shows up on the track cuz you can see the progress that he made. Oh wow. So what, what kind of data are we talking about here? I’m, I’m super curious to see like, what, what is the measurement because, and on the mental game, other than results? Um, it’s tough. I mean, I’ve dipped into what you said.

I’ve had like an intention to execution type ratio to see, you know, hey, we we’re gonna, this is our intention during, uh, qualifying one. Um, did we execute yes or no? And if we did, what, what are we giving ourselves for a number? And if there’s sevens and eights, we’re not happy. Nines and tens is what we’re looking for.

Yeah. Uh, from a, a cardiovascular standpoint, we do testing to test. Lactate threshold, VO two max, heart rate, max recovery, heart rates, all of that’s going to give us a certain amount of workload that they need during the workout, and we can measure that. So afterwards, we know if they held the right amount of watts for the right amount of time or if they didn’t.

So it’s a functional power threshold that we can see every single time they train. Now, if we’re in more of a strength workout or a off season where we’re working on really getting stronger, then obviously we have weight and reps that we can track. So depending on the workout in the time of the season, we will track different things, but we always have something that we’re tracking to know if that workout was worth doing or if you were just getting it.

Ha ha. I love it. Bust in . Um, so when you brought up the, like, the strength part, and it’s interesting on, on my end, because obviously, you know, especially with a, a sled, I mean, you really gotta have some upper body strength, some leg strength. Same thing with Moto, you know, you’ve got this 230 pound or, you know Yeah.

Device below you and, and, and it’s even higher obviously with a sled. So strength, yeah, there’s four 50 pounds. , what’s that? 450 pounds ? Yeah, that’s what, uh, about about four 50 pounds for a race snowmobile. Oh geez. So when it comes to like finding a balance between strength and then more of like a cardiovascular conditioning, how do you manage that piece of the puzzle?

Yeah, I manage it based off of the athlete’s testing numbers. So we find that some athletes come in with a really good cardiovascular base and good cardio numbers. But then on a strength side, aren’t showing it where other athletes come in, like maybe someone who played football his whole life, um, and transferred into racing.

They normally have a really good strength balance, but then you get ’em into their threshold testing and their cardio testing and it’s not there. So I will utilize the athlete’s results that they present to me on day one through our testing, and then design the program from there. Also, every time they ride, every time they race, we’re seeing data and we’re asking how they’re feeling.

So we can also go off of feel, but feeling isn’t always everything when you have all the emotions evolve, which I think is a lot where you come in. So we look at measurable data along with, you know, verbal feedback. I love it. Yeah, and, and it’s interesting because uh, I’ve got a pro golfer and there, and the big topic is fuel versus real.

you know, and mm-hmm. and how much of, and I think that might even be something with Rson, you know, whenever I hear an athlete is chasing settings, especially, we see this all the time, all too often. And, and I’ve actually bumped into en golf as well, chasing a new club, chasing a, a different shaft, a new club face, uh, you know, but then you start to realize that, well, are we chasing a setting?

Cuz a lot of times these guys will start with their baseline setting. You hear it all the time. I mean, I’ve been in this field for years and it’s like they start with a baseline setting. Chase, chase, chase, chase, chase, chase, chase. And oftentimes they come right back to where they were. Yeah. And so the field versus real concept is very real.

Yeah. It’s pretty wild how that works. Yeah. I mean, it’s something we see like every preseason, you know, going into the season, guys are chasing settings and, um, I’m going through it with a couple of my athletes right now where the, the race feeling isn’t always there for them, but it’s really easy to go down the wrong rabbit hole.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. And then, and like you said, it really is a rabbit hole because especially, you know, in the type of sports that we’re in with these motor sports where you’ve got, you know, 8, 10, 12 minutes, 20 minutes, whatever it is, that’s it. Once you go in, you know, you bring what you got and you bring your best, but there’s no mm-hmm.

it’s very difficult to adjust in real time and be adaptable within that motto. So you better hope you go on with the right vibe and, and you have the right strategy and plan and you execute on it. Because if you go down the wrong rabbit hole, especially, you see it with, um, tracks that evolve throughout the evening.

Yes. And you’ve got these athletes that get comfortable on a setting in, let’s say, not so much free practice, but maybe, you know, first qualifier. But then by the evening, not only is there moisture that’s set in, so sometimes tracks will have a little bit more moisture, be a little more slick. But even just the characteristics of the track, the lines have changed where Yep.

You almost have to predict what the suspension should be. , um, and maybe ride through it at the beginning. Yeah. And that’s where you see, uh, teams and riders that have data from years prior can really predict ahead of time. And, uh, riders who don’t have that data or don’t have a good team around them struggle a little bit more because they just don’t know what direction to go.

Yeah. You bring up data, which I think, you know, when, when it comes to auto racing, um, data’s huge. Uh, li Ppro came out, which I felt was an amazing tool, um mm-hmm. , but I really struggled to get my athletes to adopt it. Um, it seems like. There’s a lack, in my opinion, there’s a lack of data when it comes specifically to motocross and Supercross when compared.

I’m not saying there isn’t data, but when you compare it to golf, I mean, we have TrackMan, we have all these tools. The numbers are insane as far as what you can track. Mm-hmm. . Um, and obviously with auto racing, you know, you see any athlete that gets out of the car, they’re eventually gonna be sitting in front of a computer at some point looking at their, their data from their last session.

Um, do you feel that there could be a better use of data? Not so much just on the physical side. Cause I know that, you know, you’ve gotten involved in this kind of like I have where you start to dance in many areas, not just the physical, uh, in the fitness side, but do you think that there’s room for maybe more data use or do you feel like, um, we’re, we don’t need anymore?

I think that right now you can see the separation from. A factory program and a privateer program where someone’s not on who, who’s not on a team because that factory team is breaking down data every single time that they’re out on the track. Whether it be filming and overlaying a faster rider versus you looking at your data from your engine and how it was performing.

Looking back at video of your suspension and your line choice, looking at the track map versus the line that you took. All of that, if you get involved with the high level team, they’re on it and you go into the private tier pits and in between they’re sitting there eating a peanut butter and jelly. So, um, I think there’s a major difference and I think the people who would benefit the most are the riders who are a little bit more in the back and just need to take that extra little dial and turn it up to gather more da uh, get more data on what they’re doing.

But you know, . Is it harder? Yeah, it’s harder because you need more people. So you gotta have someone to film you and help you review it. So I see why it’s not always there, but I think it would make huge games for so many riders. Oh, for sure. I mean, you know, it’s, it’s night and day. I mean, even something as simple as Dart Fish, which I don’t any of your athletes use the DART Fish program?

Dart Fish is blowing up right now. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, we had it back. I was on a team, uh, the Blue Buffalo team. We had, the technology’s been around, but it, it, it kind of like lo fell out of favor I think for a little bit. Mm-hmm. with like, maybe the guys outside of maybe top 10, but everyone that I know that uses it, I mean, they, they sometimes will live on it, you know?

Yeah. I mean, you can’t beat the fact that you can like Ghost a ride and you can look at the differences. I mean, it’s like clear as day, and then if you take data and then you have the visual. , you know, then you start to close the gap between feeling real. It’s like, yeah, that’s a fact. You’re not, you know, your, your body position is off or your line choice is off.

It’s interesting. Yeah. Um, so that’s, that’s very interesting that we see that difference. And I do agree with you that there needs to be more bodies, but, you know, from my my experience, you know, you tell someone, Hey, do you wanna help me out and be part of the team? Yeah. Most people are excited that, so I wonder, do you think that’s more of an excuse than, than, than not?

I think that it’s very easy to overcome, especially at the level of being a pro athlete. And one of my racers that I’ve worked with since he was 14, Kevin Morans, Is an awesome example of that. He reaches out and gets help every weekend from the people that maybe you’re in that town where the race is going and people are so pumped to help him so pumped that they’ll pay him a hundred dollars Toine their name on his bike, right?

Like people want to help you and those same people if you can take that and apply it to your race day. I think that um, that’s one of the reasons why we’ve seen Kevin be a main event guy this year, is that he is utilizing more resources than he ever has in utilizing his platform to help him not only grow financially, but also grow his results and uh, his name in the industry.

Oh, for sure. And you know, it’s actually perfect time to move into this conversation cuz I’ve been really fascinated by, you know, we have, uh, an athlete in common that we work together with. Um, and then, you know, just looking at your. athletes from a motor sports standpoint. I see Josh Co Cartwright, who I’ve been a fan of for years.

Kevin Morans, who I met at the Goat Farm actually when I was there with another athlete. So that was the first interaction I had with him. And then you’ve got Nick Lorenz, and then you got Josh Shepherd in Snow Cross. Mm-hmm. . What I find very fascinating to me is these are all really great human beings, not just great athletes.

Mm-hmm. not just great, you know, at at their sport and their discipline, but you, you seem to gravitate towards these really great human beings. Is this by design or is this by chance? Tell me more about that. Um, my Motorsports program is only by referral. So these are people that have. You know, brought my way, referred to me, pushed my way somehow over the years.

Um, and I have a very high retention, low volume program, so I don’t work with a lot of people and I tend to work with people for a long time, which I believe is a main part of getting results is consistency. Um, so I’ve never thought about it like you just explained it, but, you know, karma, I don’t know, how are they getting to me?

It, it, it’s working. So, um, all these guys I’ve worked with for years, um, and obviously people do come and go, but my goal is to really help people on the bike, off the bike in their life and develop a relationship to be there for them. Because so much of this racing game is highs and lows and, uh, I wanna be there someone you know, who they can rely on.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. And, and it’s interesting because, um, what’s most fascinating is your one athlete, athlete, athlete, Josh Cartwright, uh, has a nine to five, has a cubicle. The cubicle actually got some, uh, TV time recently. Mm-hmm. , I believe. Mm-hmm. . So that was pretty cool. Uh, we need to get him some artwork for that cubicle, but Josh heart Right.

Impresses me because especially this season, the fact that he’s able to maintain a nine to five and still compete at an extremely high level. What I’m interested to know is you’ve got two athletes that are at a very similar pace and, and result, you’ve got Kevin Moranz and you’ve got Joshua Cartwright.

One has the nine to five job that is completely different than is racing. Yeah. And the other I believe is full-time all in on racing. That’s correct. , um, how do you manage the difference between those two? Because they’re so similar in speed and talent and ability, but yet their day-to-day is so different.

Yeah, they’re like exciting me and stressing me out every weekend, racing each other, so I love it, but I’m also like, come on guys. Like we can still be friends. , um, you know, Josh’s schedule is, he still rides the same amount during the week as Kevin. He just has his computer at the track. Um, so he rides and then hops on his computer and he rides and hops on his computer.

So we really haven’t sacrificed his overall volume of training or riding, but he does sacrifice what he does in between sessions. Um, and Kevin, even though he doesn’t have a nine to five, if you dive in more about how Kevin Morans runs his life, he is always on the go with his business and he has completely.

Completely transformed his off the bike progress over the last couple years with his YouTube and his Patreon and his sponsorship packages. And that guy, when he gets done racing, he will be a number one salesman wherever he goes. So Kevin, even though he is full-time Moto, he’s the same as Josh, honestly, when they’re not on the track, they’re on their computer doing, uh, work.

Yeah. And it, and it’s such an important piece that I have always been maybe hypersensitive to is I’ve seen it time and time again where you get these athletes, and I’m sure you’ve seen it too, you get these athletes, these fast guys fast up and comers. They’ve got the speed, they’ve got the talent, and then they kind of get to this point where the limiting factor is more so finance than it is.

And it’s interesting to me that I feel like the, the way that people market themselves, Kevin Rans, is definitely not an example of what I’m about to say, but they don’t market themselves as well. Mm-hmm. , they don’t have, um, all the channels and the ways of, of marketing themselves. Like, let’s say even like an AJ Kazak, you know, he is got the Moto Academy, he’s got an app, he’s got partnerships.

Mm-hmm. , you know, he’s considered an influencer. Mm-hmm. when, you know, a, a brand like Fox or I know FXR is big on influencer types. They like to go to the guys that are the trainers and say, Hey, listen, your word has so much value, we’d love to support you. And you know, I’ve talked to Andy at fxr and he’d rather take a guy who’s maybe a 20th place guy or, or maybe not even, but has the influence over, let’s say, 40, 50, a hundred, a thousand people.

He’d rather sponsor that guy than the guy who’s in 13th place, who’s got 8,700 followers. Which, you know, maybe a little bit more than that, but maybe doesn’t, isn’t as active on social. Yeah. Or maybe if he does anything on social, it’s just tagging someone in a video of him riding in their equipment. Do you, do you have a sense for why it?

Why is it that to me, if you agree, there is this gap in marketing. You see Kevin Morans who’s crushing it. You’ve see an agent, Kazaks crushing it, but then there’s this gap and it’s huge. Why do you think that is? Uh, cuz it’s uncomfortable. Cuz you gotta be vulnerable, cuz you gotta put yourself out there because you gotta make a couple of steps that you wouldn’t make unless you force yourself to for a couple times.

And. I think that’s the difference. It’s time and comfortability and just like you have to push yourself into that uncomfortable zone to increase your speed, you’re gonna have to do the same thing if you wanna get out and market yourself. So some guys don’t mind if they look stupid for a couple videos where other people, their ego maybe is a little bit too big that they’re not willing to put themselves out there to actually get it off the ground and get going.

Oh yeah. The first time that you do a video, I mean, even right now I have to look at a camera where your face is actually here. Yeah. So I’m tempted to look here, but instead I’m literally for an hour and a half hour, whatever, however long we go. I’m literally looking straight ahead at nothing, basically.

And it’s funny because you just get comfortable with it. Yeah. You know, and the first time you do a video, you know, it’s just like a reshoot, a reshoot, a reshoot, and then you listen to it. and you just shame yourself. And then it’s no wonder why nobody can do these happen. They need delete, delete, delete.

Yeah. I think that’s the main difference is, uh, it’s time. And these guys are, are bred to race. You know, they haven’t been trained in PR and marketing and veto production, editing and all these things. So unless they branch out and get into it on their own or they get to the highest level where the team brings in the marketing coordinator for them, uh, it’s just something that they, that they miss.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. And it’s, you know, you start to realize, even myself, you know, right now I’m on a big push of, of getting very familiar with Google ads, YouTube ads. Mm-hmm. . And that for me is where the scalability is. You know, I mean, you can only post so much on social, and I’ve already had two Instagram accounts shut down, one got to 68,000 followers, shadow banned by, uh, Instagram and, and the Zuck.

And then another one at like 10, 11,000, whatever, it was banned for posting a, a video of a stoppy. And so even with myself, I’m like, wait a minute. , you know, uh, the email marketing, I want get people right into my email or my contact list so that heaven forbid something dramatic like this happens again.

Which I think I’ve safeguarded myself quite well on this. Matter of fact, I’ve moved more towards like Twitter and YouTube, LinkedIn. But it’s interesting because even an email list, I remember when, uh, I spent a lot more time with AJ Katza, I’m like, man, you gotta start getting emails. You gotta have your own private community and you have to have emails.

And it’s funny, I sent him a document that we had from 2017 where we talked about his goals for the next year. Uhhuh and everything that he’s done now was all in that list. And so that’s really cool. Yeah, I like to call that predictable success . I love it. Speaking of predictable success, right before we hopped on this, uh, I, I got almost like stagefright from the fact that one of my online idols, this Jack dude who just blew up recently, Who is brilliant, um, really into marketing has an amazing book.

A hundred million offers I believe it is. Or hundred. Yeah. Uh, and just, and if you guys, even though this is a little off topic, if you guys want to know what an offer is and how to make a very powerful offer, this is the best time spent for you, is to read this book by Alex Hermo. Um, and if you want, hit us up and we’ll share it with you.

You are actually working with Alex, which I, part of me is, part of me is surprised, but then, you know, part of me is, Drew, drew is doing what Drew does and this is the kind of thing Drew does. So no surprise there. Walk me through a little bit of what this relationship was. I, first of all, I’d love to hear how it got started and that I’d love to know, as you’ve grown your business and it’s become so successful, what have been the keys to your success throughout that process?

Yeah, so obviously I work with a small select amount of motor sports athletes, um, about five or six per year. Uh, I also here in Tallahassee own a gym called Momentum Tally, which you see behind me there on the sun. And we’ve got about 3,500 members. Um, and we have a thousand people in a training program.

So we have strength conditioning program, personal trainer. Yoga, Pilates, stuff like that. And I’ve been really looking at how do I get outside of the walls that I’m in here at Momentum? Because from a scalability factor, the brick and mortar business, you can only fit so many people inside your walls. Um, and also how can I make better offers to get people better results, to get a better return on my investment?

And um, I actually first came across the book, a hundred million dollar offers. I listen to audiobooks every day from my house to the time I get to work. So 15 minutes every day there and back. So 30 minutes a day, I’m on a audiobook instead of listening to music. And I listen to this book and it completely changed the way that I was thinking about my business, you know, a year ago, two years ago, verse now.

So I decided to get involved with Jim Launch, which is Alex’s gym business, and. It’s been something that’s very eye-opening and they have really helped me create a platform to get outside of Tallahassee and also maximize the walls that I have here in Tallahassee. So, um, it’s been awesome. And you know, that offer, how we can relate it back to Moto would be you have to offer sponsors something to sponsor you for and offer them to pay for it.

And a lot of times things that we’re afraid to do when it comes to selling things, which is kind of a scary word, is ask for money. So when you can put down an awesome offer and the value is there for the person in front of you, they’re more than happy to pay it. So for me, it’s all about learning how to build value and how to get outside of the walls that I have here in Tallahassee while still maintaining an awesome business and brick and mortar gym here in Tallahassee.

Oh wow. So are you looking to. create a brand? I mean, are we doing like a momentum tally than a Momentum Miami? Is that kind of the direction you’re think Momentum Tampa. Momentum Chicago. Yeah. Like, um, one thing is to expand into more facilities, which I would like to get, you know, my, my operating procedures and everything a little more squared up before we go that route.

But then another thing is to, like you were talking about, get into that online space of YouTube and Facebook and Google and Twitter and Instagram, and start offering something to people that’s gonna give them value, even if they can’t come to Tallahassee. Oh, I love it. Yeah. And you know, one thing that you can do, and I’ll, I’ll do a selfless plug right now.

behind the best.co is our website. My website, and we have something called The Beast Bulletin. The Beast Bulletin has a free version where you can get, you know, emails about little tips, uh, access to reminders about podcasts that we’ve done such as this one. But we have a, the Beast Premium where every single Monday for only $33 a month, I send out an email with a Monday through Friday game plan that is focused solely on the mental game.

It’s for pro athletes, student athletes, parents and coaches. And so far we’ve got actually gotten really good, uh, feedback. We just started this month and we’ve already got several paid, uh, members and we just keep growing. We’ve got two paid partnerships that we’re. So with that said, you should consider, and I can, you know, we could talk more about it, uh, off this call, but, um, the newsletter, I’ll tell you to me cuz I struggle with scalability as well because I work one-on-one with clients, but I can only handle so many.

And, um, you know, and, and, and I can never really take a day off because mm-hmm. if I’ve got one athlete who’s, you know, competing on the, in Argentina at a PGA event, and then I’ve got another one who’s competing here sometimes. I’ve actually, I don’t know if you’ve done this yet. My guess is you have, sometimes I’ll have one TV on upstairs and one downstairs and I get my cardio in.

Just, I could probably do it on my phone, but I try to be dramatic with it. I, I, I kind of get excited to go up and down a little bit, but, um, so that’s something to consider as well, for sure. Um, one thing that I think is interesting is what. , what do you see? You know, there’s, there’s something inside of all these athletes, there’s something inside of Nick and Josh, you know, the Josh’s and also, uh, with Kevin.

What is it that you’ve noticed now that you’ve worked with these elite athletes, what do you think would maybe be like, maybe the top one or maybe top three traits and characteristics that you see that is similar or maybe even unique in each one of ’em, but what, what seems to be the difference between the good and the great?

Um, a couple things I noticed. One is the ability to get your ass kicked and keep going. . Um, you know, you’re going to have bad days and it, what matters is what you do with that bad day. And some people will get to the breaking point where, They didn’t get where they wanted to be, so they just stop. These guys don’t stop.

They keep digging. They, they dig into the mental coach, they look at their nutrition, they look at their program, they look at their bike. They’re looking and leaving no stones unturned to make progress. And it didn’t happen in one day. They’ve been doing it for years. And that’s what got them to this point.

So one is the consistency of putting in the effort, whether they were having a good day or a bad day. And even on those bad days, I’m not saying they don’t complain. They may call me and say, you know, I hated that. That was horrible. What am I doing? But they wake up the next day and they’re back at it again.

That is the number one thing. And then the second thing is that as time goes on, they work on getting a crew around them who helps push them towards their success. None of these guys are doing it alone from a factory level all the way down to a privateer who’s doing their rookie race for the first time.

So if you can grow your crew to people to support you and help you and delegate off items that you don’t need to focus on and keep flipping those rocks over for the problems you have, I think that, that, that is a main difference that I see. Not just talent, right? Talent’s one of it, but uh, you know, where they say like, Talent.

What’s the saying? Come on here. You got me here. Yeah, I know what you’re talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Talent, hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard. So that’s it. Yeah. That’s a hard one to remember by the way. You know, you gotta be talented just to remember that one . Well, I stumbled, but I got it.

Yeah. And, and you know, it’s funny because that, that’s the name of the game is you stumble, but it’s like, how resilient are you and these athletes? I mean, let’s say you and I, um, let’s say today you find out that one of your pipes in your facility breaks, um, and there’s a leak and you, you arrive and oh geez, it’s a mess and you gotta pay this.

You gotta get this guy in. You’ve got hours to. Process it, let it go, move forward. But with these athletes, you have to let go. You have to have the memory of like a nap. Yeah. Like you have to just let it go, let it go. Someone t-boned you let it go. Let it go. You come up short on a triple, let it go. Let it go.

And so it’s interesting that, that resilience is huge. And that’s actually a big part of what I do, is trying to break the emotional attachment. People have to failure and identifying with it as opposed to like experiencing it. And uh, it, it’s amazing. But I agree with you, the letting go and the resilience and the people that you keep around you is huge.

Mm-hmm. . And you know, and it’s funny because that’s probably a part of your success too, is it seems like the people that you’ve surrounded yourself with are a game players. And a game players know more a game players and it. Spreads out. You know, I mean, it, it’s, it’s interesting to to think about that.

Yeah. Um, in my business, it, it doesn’t happen with just me here at the gym. So it’s a whole team of people that, um, I put my time into in coaching and developing and having a relationship with them so they can all go spread their wings and fly and help this business flourish. Now, for your business to be doing the volume it’s doing and to be as successful it is, um, there needs to be some degree of, you know, I, I, I don’t, I’m not a big fan of the word manager.

I, I don’t. Don’t really understand that word or feel it’s that value valuable. I feel like leadership is more so the term. Um, how do you lead your team? Because the more that, and you see this with coaches, and I’ve noticed this with myself. Uh, one of the athletes that I work with, uh, last season when we did our end of season debrief and he almost won the championship, we, one of the biggest things that we came to the conclusion was that he needs to become, one opportunity is to become a better leader.

So the whole off season, I’d say more than half of our time was spent on leadership. Mm-hmm. . Um, and you start to see this. Time and time again, even with myself, I start to, uh, bump into people that are like, Hey, you know, any leadership tips? And then I just talk to a principal of a school who’s a basketball coach the other day, and he’s got a couple books on leadership.

What does, how do you lead? What’s your formula for that? Uh, I, I like to lead from the front so you, , I’ve been in this industry for 20 years. I’ve been in the trenches. I know what it takes from the bottom to the top. So for me, I like to find out what, what is the reason why someone’s here? What’s the reason why they’re working?

What are their future goals? And I help them bridge the gap of finding their sweet spot of what they’re good at while they’re here and where they’re trying to get to have them tell me what it is they want to achieve. And then I help make a plan within these walls of how we can get there. And then main thing is hold them accountable and, um, tell them what they’re doing good, and also tell ’em the hard words that maybe they’re not doing good and, and help them develop on the, on their weaknesses.

So, um, I like to lead by standing in front of them, having face-to-face conversation or FaceTime, whatever it may be, and being there for them. It’s the same way that I do with my athletes is we find out where they’re at. , we find out where they wanna get to. We bridge that gap by making a plan, make changes along the way if needed, and hold them accountable to doing what it takes to get to where they wanna be.

Mm-hmm. , I love it. Yeah. And the accountability piece is huge. I agree with you on that. You know, it’s, it’s so easy to. Kind of create these habits that can go overlooked or dismissed and before you know it, they turn into something even bigger. So to have that accountability. And I think also, you know, the people that are working with you are probably looking up to you.

They’re like, wow, you know, Josh’s got a beautiful wife, he’s now got a child. Um, he’s photogenic. You know, I saw your Breckenridge photos. I’m like, oh wow, . I’m like, are those, did he really get married or is he a part-time model? Those came out great. Um, so I think people look up to you cuz you’re, you’re leading by example, essentially.

I mean, it, people see you working with athletes, getting success with, you know, having great results with them growing your business. It’s like, how could they not look up to you and look, look for you to lead, you know, so Well I appreciate. . Yeah. That’s really cool. So I wanted to shift gears a little bit and talk more about, um, two topics that you can’t get away from when it comes to any sport, but, um, more specifically with motocross, uh, and Supercross.

Talk to me a little bit about how you manage race day nutrition and even the night before. Because I feel like every athlete I’ve worked with and I, you know, I try not to go into the nutrition piece because it’s just definitely not my wheelhouse. Yeah. And definitely not the physical fitness side. I definitely stick to the mental, but it’s interesting because I don’t think there’s ever been an athlete that I’ve worked with yet that didn’t have an opportunity to refine their nutrition piece just as much as they can improve their fitness.

Cuz it seems like the order is, you know, people focus on their fitness and that’s like 80% and then maybe 15%. actually, we’ll call it 19% on, you know, nutrition. Mm-hmm. , and then, Hey, hi. Me. I’m the 1% left behind on the mental game. I’m the last person someone calls. Um, maybe gimme some insights and some tips on that, if you don’t mind.

Yeah. With nutrition, uh, as my athletes level up and have more financial support and can afford things that cost a bit more, we move into a full nutrition testing, uh, panel with a functional medicine doctor to find out their genetic levels, their allergies, their deficiencies where they’re at, and come up with a plan that’s specific to their body.

Um, with people who maybe can’t do that or aren’t willing to pull the trigger on it. Then I like to be more towards like a paleo type. Meat, rice, potatoes, fruits and veggies. Nuts and seeds. So more like a caveman style diet. Um, but most of my athletes I work with are at the highest level and we’re digging really deep on these things and testing frequently to know specifically what it is that they want, uh, what it is that they need and where they’re lacking, what supplements they need to be on, what foods they should eat more of.

So we go deep on that. And uh, I don’t do it all by myself though. I work with a team of doctors. Um, we’ve got people at Red Bull that we work with. And then I’ve got a doctor out in Colorado that I work with, Dr. Corey King, who’s been super helpful for my athletes. And, uh, I really appreciate that guy cuz not only does he help them, but he also teaches me a lot.

Um, as far as what’s the difference between the night before the race and race. Before the race, I don’t like to change much. I like to eat how we’re eating through the whole week, um, and make sure that you’re fully nourished with a diverse nutrient profile that would look something like um, potatoes, meat, and a vegetable.

Um, as far as race day goes, you’ve got a lot of different mindsets and sensitivities on race day of what makes people feel good and what doesn’t. So we really have to dive into that athlete and figure out what it is that’s going to make them feel good mentally and physically and also actually nourish them for the demand that’s gonna be put on them.

So I don’t have a set race day plan cuz it really depends on the athlete and what they absorb well and what they don’t. But it’s much more regular than most would think. A lot of people think like we have all these foods on race day that we need to be eating. , we really need a breakfast, a meal in the middle of the day and a dinner.

And then we need to be replacing what you’re burning off during the, during the motos, and then adding in supplements and specific electrolytes and stuff like that to replenish what you lose in your sweat. Yeah. Now, how do you, how do you prevent any of these glucose spikes and things such as that? Uh, normally you’re going to need to have a lot of healthy fats throughout the day, um, which you get nuts, seeds, avocados, coconut oil, grass fed butter, things like that.

Um, you actually want some high insulin or a high glucose fuel right when you get off of the bike. So something like, Uh, rhino Power or hammer, heat or armor, every major company has one where right when you get off, you’re pounding down those carbohydrates that you just burned off. Cuz when your heart rate’s super high, uh, like you are, when you’re on the track, you’re not really burning any fat.

It’s just straight glycogen. So we do a really, really high dose of sugar or glycogen right when they get off the bike. But then all the normal meals that they’re eating through the day should be balanced. Interesting. I, yeah, I was not aware of that. Um, that’s really interesting. So, so are you doing that to prevent them from crashing then?

Uh, think about it like a gas tank in your car. So you got a full gas tank of glycogen before you go out on the track and your heart rate’s at one 90, the whole time you’re out there and your glycogen stores they’re in your muscles are getting de. as the minutes go on and the more minutes you go, the the more you gotta replenish.

So right when you pull off the track, fill that store back up with the amount of grams needed based off of how long you just trained for, also how much you weigh your heart rate. All these things play a factor. So it is specific to the rider, but if I’m talking generalities, um, we’re replacing like 20 to 40 grams of glucose every time they come off the track.

Oh, wow. And it, what kind of form is that in typically? Uh, I like to use a form of like rice or corn. So like a rhino power, carbo fuel, or hydration fuel. Um, I’ve been working with the guys at Rhino Power for a long time. Their products tend to do really well. Some people have a little bit more sensitive.

And we may move to a different type of carb, like a maltodextrin or a dextrous. Um, but I tend to use glucose for most people. Um, and then also we can have some fruit or things like that. But when, when you look at a Supercross day, you’ve got some really quick turnaround times until you get a longer break.

So we tend to do like liquid, really quick digesting gels or drinks during the day. And then we have that longer break then get a real. What are your thoughts on like the scratch, liquid iv, those type of, uh, tools to kind of stay hydrated? All those are gonna fall into the category of what I was just speaking of.

So I like to do there, there’s a couple things you, you have to work around where you’re working with a, with a high level athlete. One is what they can digest well, two, what their actual demand is and three, who the heck are they sponsored by right . So, um, most of the time the, the goal is to use the sponsored product.

So I like to look at what, you know, levels of product that company has and pick and choose the right ones and do some testing with it, and hopefully that product works well for them. If not, um, we’re gonna find something that works. Yeah, you can always, you know, Take out the kitchen and do a little dumpy dump and do a little refilling.

Yep. , no, nobody does that. I’m sure. Certainly not with the Monster Energy cans to the Red Bull cans right after an event. Um, so, uh, one thing that I wanted to kind of hear, if you’ve had any interesting anecdotes on this, when you talked about the functional medicine doc, um, the few people, I’m surprised not more people have done it, and a matter of fact, it’s on my list of things to do.

Um, I actually just found out I had an almond allergy like two months ago. So here I am living on this planet for more than 20 years and, uh, found that out recently. And I’m like, all of a sudden I was keeled over and I, I was like, I am dying. , what is this? But it’s just interesting. I said to myself that was like the wake up call for me.

I’m like, wow. How am I just knowing this now and, and if I’m knowing that almonds are an issue, what else is an issue? You know? Yeah. And so what I’m curious to hear from you is any anecdotes of any real shocking revelations from this panel of testing where you can find either your allergies or foods that you don’t digest well.

Have you heard anything interesting that was surprising to you and your. The most surprising thing to me is that everyone’s different. So, you know, you really can’t just say X food is bad for all moto athletes, or X food is good for all moto athletes. So we do have some generalities that if you’re not gonna go that deep in your testing, you know, we’ll push you towards.

But really when you do these testing, you find out based off the person’s genetic history, based off their medical history, how many antibiotics they got, they’ve been on, how much surgeries they’ve been on, what amount of stress have they been under, have they ever had mono or Epstein bar or something like that.

Um, , all these things play a factor in how well they absorb nutrients and what foods affect them positively and negatively. So that’s why I like to go the full deep dive and figure out all of it so that we know we’ve left no stone unturned because the demand of the travel schedule, the training schedule, the mental load, the stress that these guys are under, um, it all takes a toll if you don’t have good nutrition.

Oh, for sure. And it’s interesting because when you had mentioned Epstein. Um, I’ve been surprised to hear it seems, at least my perspective and perception. Whether it’s true or not, I’m not sure, but my belief is, and you can tell me otherwise, that Epstein bar in over training seems to be an issue for sure in Supercross and motocross.

Not so sure if it is, uh, in other sports. But, um, so one, do you agree or disagree on the over-training and also if Epstein Barr is closely linked to that, and then secondly, um, what e e even if you do or do not, what are the signs of over-training? Because it’s a very real thing. I mean, you know, we have overthinking in my field, which is , you know, runs rampant, but you know, it’s hard sometimes cause you say, well, what am I supposed to just not think about this?

And so it’s like, what’s the line between thinking and overthinking? What’s the line between training and over-training? Yeah. Um, You know, you said, what are some things you can, you can look at to know if you’re over training or not? And the first one is gonna be how well you’re recovering, but the, the question is, you know, from a, from an analytics standpoint, how do you actually know if you’re recovering or not?

Just by saying, I’m tired or not in the morning. And things that we look at are resting heart rate, heart rate variability, how well the athlete’s heart rate is coming down during exercise. Um, how long they can hold their threshold or their, their, where they tested at originally for. So we know if someone is over training or not.

A lot of times you’ll see athletes nowadays we’re using aura rings or whoop bands or um, you know, polar has recovery tracking on their watches, so does Garmin. So we’re using tools to make sure that it’s not a guess. Um, so if I see an athlete whose normal resting heart rate. is 42 and after a race weekend, it’s Monday.

They had a long travel schedule and they’re up at 48. That’s a big difference between 42 and 48. And we’re gonna pull back and go lighter that day. It’s not a max out day, it’s not a day where we’re pounding motos all day. Um, where if your normal resting heart rate’s 42 and you wake up on Tuesday morning, or we’re back at 42 or 41 or 43, we know that it’s, that it is go Tom.

So we’re using tools to see and measure things, and as technology has developed, this has become so much better from someone who’s working remote with athletes because I can see all the data without, without asking. Uh, I just get it every morning. So, um, do I think it’s important? Very important. Do I think that Epstein bar and these type of sicknesses are common in Moto?

Yes. Um, I’m not a medical doctor, but I have experienced a lot of it over my 15 years being in the industry. Yeah. And I mean, why do you think that is? I mean, and I don’t know if it’s an accurate statement to say that it seems to be more of an issue in our sport. I mean, we’ve seen it with Dean Wilson. Uh, we’ve seen it with a lot of guys.

I think maybe even Ken Roxon. You know, I just feel like the, the tr the amount of training and just never lifting and never stopping and just this unrelentless. Fight. I, I just, there’s a part of me that feels that we are making a, a, a big mistake and that, you know, maybe we’d perform better if we just backed down, and maybe it’s only 10%, but that 10%, just like you said, the heart rate goes from resting, heart rate goes from 42 to 48.

All right? Sure. It’s only six points, but only six points is not only six points. Yeah. And I would argue that maybe even 5% to single digit percentages, up to five, to maybe 9%, who knows? Maybe just that much of a bringing it down on the training could make a difference. I mean, do you think, what, what do you think prevents people from recognizing the signs of over training and maybe having a little bit more balance in their life?

Yeah. the want to succeed and always work harder to get better, uh, makes you feel like going easier. You’re, you’re not going to get where you wanna be, but sometimes that is the right thing to do. So I think when you get a good team around you who helps you monitor and take the emotions out of it, it can really be helpful.

And I think that the industry has progressed so much through the years with, um, with tracking these type of things and learning when it’s going to come on and how to prevent it. But when you look at the travel schedule combined with the workload, combined with the past surgeries and antibiotics and, uh, lack of good gut biome or immune system, all those things play a factor in, in athlete tanking, uh, and getting sick.

Maybe easier than, than what you would think. Yeah. And it’s funny, you, you talk about the microbiome, there’s a gentleman who grew up with my father. Who actually lives down the street, not even a mile from where I am now. And, uh, , his name’s Ralph and good old Ralph is 75, whatever he is, and Ralph will zip by you if you’re going to get your mail, whoa, right by on his bicycle, not motorcycle, not car, bicycle.

And then you’ll see, and then what you’ll do is you’ll go about your day, you’ll check your emails, you’ll order your online pizza. It will be delivered in 30 minutes or less as promised. Thank you. Dominoes. And then two hours pass. And then for some reason you’re outside watering your flowers and doing what you do.

And here goes Ralph again. Two hours later, boom. And then so one time I’m like, you know what? I saw it happen a couple times. And I’m like, I’m done with this. I’m like, Ralph ain’t getting by me next time. So I actually stopped Ralph and I said, Ralph, I gotta ask you. , how are you doing this? And it was funny, we talked for almost an hour and a half and he spoke the whole time about just that.

Mm-hmm. , the gut microbiome. And he’s big on Caer Keer. Yeah. Keifer Keifer. Yeah. Uh, he’s big on fermented yogurt. It’s fermented milk, essentially. So full of probiotics. Yeah. And it was, what was wild is he brought me, some said, go buy some milk tomorrow morning and I’ll stop by. He brought it and I kept it going for a while, and I don’t know, I, I honestly, that was right around the time where I was in the best fitness.

After that, I was in the, the best physical condition I’ve been in, in possibly ever my entire life. And then now I’ve moved to kimchi and sauerkraut, which also has some fermentation, which by the way, if you’ve ever tried Kim, , that stuff is good. ? I’m a fan. I’m a fan. Yeah. I’m a big fan. I mean, uh, really good stuff.

Um, what, so how, how does that all, how does that all work? Like, and, and, and depending on the foods that we eat, cuz like, for example, I talked to Alden Baker, uh, one time and he’s very like anti red meat and he talks about the hormones within there, you know, and then you, there’s some people that are plant-based.

What’s the interaction there? Like what, what, what are we really looking at when we talk about the microbiome? Like maybe gimme like a, not like, just a general idea of what are we trying to achieve here with these probiotics? Yeah. The, the, your gut biome or your stomach and everything that’s in there is the first step of your immune system.

So on a schedule, if you’re looking at an athlete, like a pro golfer or a Moto or Supercross or snow cross who’s always traveling on planes in airports, Nights where you have low sleep, other nights where you have high sleep, that all is going to affect your immune system. And the gut is the beginning of the immune system.

So what we look at first with athletes is making sure that they have a healthy gut and got surgery a year ago, had my a c l redone when I got done, had to go on antibiotics. Those antibiotics killed off all that bacteria in my stomach. So now that athlete is going to need to rebuild that bacteria. And there are some general things you can do just by taking a multi strain probiotic and eating kimchi and fermented foods.

Um, but also we can test for things like that to see it exactly is well what it is that the athlete needs. So, um, I’m a huge proponent of finding out what is going on in your physiology to figure out what it is that you need to do to get to the next step so you can actually measure. Whether someone’s got streptococcus pneumonia or what, you can actually measure that in the gut biome.

Are you saying that that’s the level of detail that you guys sometimes will explore? We’ll find out where they’re deficient and anything that is a red flag. And then with the team of doctors, implement supplements and products to help them get back to a state of, uh, balance or homeostasis so that they can perform their best.

And a lot of times that starts with the gut and it’s going to be two parts. One is going to be removing the things that are messing it up, and two is going to be adding things in to rebuild it. So most of the time that comes with some sort of elimination diet and things that people don’t wanna hear, but is super common, is eliminating gluten, dairy, and sugar.

At least in a short term to help all that bacteria get back to balance and then adding in supplements based off of the person. Um, and then once they get back to a state of balance, people can tolerate things differently. So I don’t have a one way to do it. I like to work with the individual and with a team of doctors to figure it out.

Exactly. Yeah. I love that. And, um, it, it brings me to the, the thought of, I recently test drove the carnivore diet. I personally loved it. I thought it was great. I felt very much, I’m a Joe Rogan fan and you know, he’s a big fan of the carnivore diet. I also love meat too. It’s my favorite thing to eat, especially red meat.

Um, really enjoyed it. Felt the strongest I’ve ever been and actually ended up having my per meat, matching my personal best on flat bench. And now I think I can exceed it. Mm-hmm. . Um, and I give some credit to it. Um, how do you view. Carnivore versus plant-based diets? I mean, can, can an athlete truly succeed?

I mean, we see someone like, uh, Lewis Hamilton and F1 has had a great career, maybe not as aggressive. Uh, what they’re doing is maybe motocross, Supercross, but not, probably not that far off because I mean, the, the amount of GS they’re experiencing, um, who knows how much calories they’re burning. Maybe it is very similar to Supercross motocross, he’s plant-based and other athletes are as well.

And maybe it’s trending lately. How do you see the differences between an athlete’s plant-based and carnivore? Um, obviously if you’re plant-based, there’s things that you’re not going to be getting from your food, so you’ll need to supplement them. Um, we saw Dylan Fernandez win an outdoor championship and actually smoke everybody and come on strong late in every motto.

He’s plant-based. Um, we got Eli Tomak and Ricky Carmichael who’ve dominated the sport for a long time and they meet. So I really think it comes back to the person and if you’re doing it correctly for your body or not. Um, personally not a big fan of a plant-based diet. I, uh, think that a rotational diet of different types of proteins, from game meat to red meat, to fish shellfish, um, and then a nutrient, a nutrient dense, uh, vegetable profile is really important.

So for me it’s the, not really, I’m not on plant-based train, but if an athlete presented to me a situation where it made sense to go that way, uh, I 100% would. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I can see it. And it’s just interesting you start to realize, It always comes down to the same thing, which it really has to be customized.

And I think a lot of it’s your beliefs too, you know? Mm-hmm. , if you believe that red meat harms you, then I believe in the placebo or the nocebo effect. Um, I see it happen all the time, you know? Um, yep. It’s amazing the power of the mind. I mean, I remember one time I was doing, uh, uh, a movement, uh, it was actually flat bench again, and by mistake, I had, I, I was going for a certain weight that I knew I should be able to do a certain amount of times.

So I had this expectation. I said, all right, I should be able to do this, whatever it was six times, um, had put on mistakenly an extra 10 pounds, and sure enough, . I did the exact amount of reps. Yeah. The exact way that I would’ve thought. And I’ll tell you, I remember how mad I wa I don’t, I usually don’t get too aggressive with myself.

I don’t get too mad. But I was mad for a very long time. And I think I let myself stay mad because I think anger’s interesting. And you know, I think it gets a bad rap because the truth is, is anger is just built up emotion. Mm-hmm. . And it’s it. So anger in the emotion app is built as a result of the energy that’s built as a result of it isn’t so much the problem as to where do you expel or send that, you know, what’s the next decision you make with it.

And for me it was like, That, that is not happening again. And it’s funny because ever since, um, I tend to, even the gym I go to now that I’m gonna go to after this, it, I think the average age is like 22. And it’s funny because I don’t see anyone push to failure. And then here I am a couple years older and I’m like, I feel like I’m pushing a failure.

And I’m like the only guy. And I don’t get it, you know, but it’s all because of this, this one incident that happened probably 20 years ago, no joke that long ago. It stuck with me because it burned such a hole in my brain. Yeah. That I’m like, I’m never doing that again. So it’s in interesting that you could see that anger can be used for good in this case.

You know, it’s, it’s, it’s had a positive impact on my workouts ever since. Mm-hmm. And, um, some people go the opposite way with, with Amber. Yeah. And it doesn’t, I had an awesome example of that at the Houston Super Cross. Uh, one of my racers, Jace Owen, worked with him for a long time and Jace is one of those riders that when he’s pissed, he absolutely rides his ass off.

And he went down in the first corner and I’ve never seen that kid hit a set of whoops. So fast and came back up, made it right into the main, through the heat race, even though he was laying in the corner dead last came off the track. And, uh, I’m like, dude, What just happened to you in the, whoops, you haven’t went, that you went twice as fast as you did all day through the, whoops.

And he just, that anger, you know, unlocked a part of his brain that he wasn’t willing to unlock without it. That is wild. Yeah, and it’s interesting because some people, I think that, and, and this is an area I’m currently exploring, is trying to better distinguish this with my, my athletes. One word that I do not like to hear is frustrated because frustration very rarely has something positive come from it.

But when someone’s angry, you do sometimes see that. And I think a lot of times it is, you know, whenever you’re emotion emotional, uh, I always say, is it a challenge or is it a. , you know, because if you view something as a threat, then you start to go down that cascade of sympathetic nervous system, fight flight or freeze fight flight.

Yeah. But if you look at something as a challenge, because you know, if you have an obstacle, I mean, it’s your choice how you look at it. But when you look at it as a challenge, like my golfer, we actually have challenge holes. He plays golf to the best that he can, but we always have two challenge holes for every 18.

And you know what? We’ve studied it and looked at it sure as hell always seems to do better on the challenge holes . So, you know, but, but then it’s interesting. So it’s like, all right, what? What do we do? Add two more? Uh, then you get four challenge holes that diminish the effect. But it was very telling because it’s like, wow, you know, you do well when you’re challenged, but then you start to realize it’s all about keeping that frame towards that challenge and avoiding the threat and the cascade of events that happens after.

Yeah, very interesting. It’s, you know, what can you do with it? How do you channel it? Where does your mind go when you get to that point and what’s the effect of it? And um, you can see people who ride horrible when they’re pissed off and they just make a ton of mistakes or other people that just let their brain go and the talent comes out.

So, um, it’d be cool to have, and maybe you do, to have a like formula for. Yes, it’s, there’s, for me, I’m big on, um, challenge versus threat. Uncertainty, uncomfortability the unknown. Um, fear of the unknown, believe it or not, is interesting. It gets, it’s not talked about enough. Um, if you say, oh, I have a fear of failure, well, that also feeds into the fear of the unknown.

Your fear of failure is not being sure whether or not you are gonna fail or not. Um, and also fear of public speaking. It’s really the fear of the unknown because you have the fear of the speaking, but you, you just don’t know how you’re gonna do. And a lot of athletes, that’s why you see athletes that have these pre-race rituals or routines is it is in, at a time when they’re so uncertain and so uncomfortable with that uncertainty.

It’s the one. that is certain. And it’s amazing when you start to just think of the word certainty, you know, and you start to realize that it all goes back to when we were Neanderthals, where, you know, I don’t know if I’m gonna be alive tomorrow. Mm-hmm. average life, expectancy’s 30, I’m 28, which is like the, you know, like, let’s say I, I’m a Neanderthal.

I’m not 28, but Yeah. Yeah. Let’s say I was 28. It’s like, wow, that’s like ancient, like you’re like a, a noble who knows whatever they called them back then, or maybe you’re like a, whatever that means they probably, you know, had some sort of title for it. But what was interesting is just, you know, it’s still inside of us, you know, technology’s evolved, but like the brain doesn’t just all of a sudden, Keep pace with where we’re at.

We’ve advanced as a society faster than some of the deeper like lizard brain. Like, cuz the, that part of the brain is more like in the interior side, you know? Sure. The frontal con uh, cortex has grown. That has happened. So our cognitive ability, our abilities to like, imagine and things like that, look into the future.

But it’s funny because, um, you see it all the time that people are still afflicted with this uncertainty, the unknown because, you know, you don’t know what’s gonna happen. Back in the day you went to go get a couple berries for your tribe and a T-Rex, it’s like, whoa, , this is over. I’m done. You know? I mean, so you realize that fear and the unknown and uncertain was something important because it w it had to exist to keep you alive, right?

Yeah. And I’ve seen, uh, you know, some of my athletes that work with you, their pre-race rituals develop, um, and I call it being connected to source. They’re just connected to it. It’s what they do. It comes to them. They’ve done it so many times that it gets them into a place that’s where they need to be.

And um, at first it’s kind of something they have to think about, but then once they get going on it, they’re just in the zone once they get done with it. Oh, it’s true. Yeah. And, and it’s interesting the zone, there’s a whole bunch of check marks that tend to need to be checked. And you know, one of ’em is you need to be challenged.

Uh, one of ’em is you need to have a certain level of excitement. And you know, that’s another interesting one too, is people don’t realize that, um, when you say that you’re nervous, there’s a cascade of events going on within your body that are not all that different than if you’re excited mm-hmm. . And so really it’s the frame, right?

Think about like my favorite examples, like a rollercoaster. , if you’re kind of on the edge on roller coasters, you’re going up and it’s like, tick, tick, tick. Oh my god. Oh my God. You’re totally fearful. You’re sweaty pupils dilated, heart rate elevated, but then all of a sudden from boom, you go down and it’s like the frame changes and they’re like, this is awesome.

Yeah. It’s like, well wait, you were just about ready to bail and, and wave, wave off the thing and see if you get the operator to hit the stop button, and now all of a sudden you’re up like, this is the best thing I’ve ever done. . You know, so it’s amazing. You can see this shift in how people feel and you realize how, how fleeting feelings can actually be.

It’s, it’s pretty fascinating. Yeah. I you, that part of your program has helped me as a trainer for sure. Oh, it’s so much fun. Yeah, it’s, it’s fun. The mental game is great. So let me ask you this last question. , obviously your future is bright and you know, I can only imagine where you’re gonna be and just, I, I was gonna say five years, and I’m like five years.

That’s like an eternity. Drew’s probably thinking like six months. Um, what, where do you see yourself in the next, you know, in, in your business in the next year or two? And, and also, you know, what version of yourself, what, how do you need to change and grow in order to achieve that result? Uh, for me, where I see myself is continuing to develop, uh, I call ’em ancillary revenue streams, so other ways that I can bring in revenue that help people.

And also along the way, I really love creating jobs for people to help provide for them and teach them and kind of show them the way of how I’ve done it. So I’m, I see myself in the next six. Um, you know, in the last six months I’ve started a physical therapy practice. I’ve grown the actual gym business here.

Moving forward, I’m looking at getting into the online space and having programs to help people in the motor sports, uh, industry. Also people who wanna transform their mindset in their bodies. Um, and then moving forward after that, I’d love to have, like we talked about, uh, it might have been off air at the very beginning, but moving into more locations of momentum.

So momentum tally Momentum, Tampa Momentum, Phoenix Momentum, Chicago. I just like to say that and put a lot of out there because for me, when I put it out there and I keep on the daily grind of everything and keep my focus, um, it tends to blossom. So I’m really excited about the future. in my business, uh, the fitness business, and also I’m looking at really leveling up the level of athletes that I’m working with and watching my athletes grow, continuing to push them and work with a small amount of high level athletes for the years to come.

I love it. Great answer. Yeah, and I mean, it, it just, it’s exciting to know that there’s so many opportunities there. It’s just whether you’re gonna take ’em or not, whether you’re gonna, like you said, put it out there and, and you have to have some degree of blind faith and courage to be like, Hey, this is what I’m gonna do.

And, um, but I think what’s interesting is, you know, you’ve proven to yourself that if you say you’re gonna do something, you do it. So I think when you say something, there’s something inside of you that says, well, hey, you said it. And I mean, Hey, what? We’ve got it. Hey, it’s recorded. I’m not giving that piece out and you don’t want me to, but you know, I, I’ll bet you anything, you know, here we are.

What’s it? March 1st, I think, or second. Um, first. So, you know, we’ll see where you’re at in six months. This will be a nice little thing that you can look back on and be like, wow, how much, how much have I grown and change the six months? And based on what you’ve been doing, uh, I wouldn’t be surprised if you even surprised yourself.

So, um, how can people reach out to you? How can people find you? And I did not ask this yet to add to it. Um, can people come and train with you that don’t race? Uh, you know, at the highest level? Is, is there also a gym facility? I’m assuming that that’s a big part of your business. Maybe, you know, let us know about that as well.

Yeah. Uh, one, you can always find me. My main platform is Instagram right now, DW performance, drew Whitehead. Um, you can reach out to me, Tom. Gimme a follow, shoot me a message. Ask me a question. Love to communicate with people there. Um, if you’re in Tallahassee, I have a facility, momentum Fitness. We’re 25,000 square feet.

I’ve got a team of, uh, 25 trainers who can help you reach your goals, whether it be athletic goals, weight loss, strength. We’ve got pro bodybuilders, I’ve got Pilates and yoga. I’ve got a lot of ways that we can help transform people if you’re actually in Tallahassee. So love to have in, in the facility. I do have a team of trainers that work with clients online as well.

So if you’re looking at getting involved in a program and you’re an amateur, you’re a weekend warrior, we do that also. So you can get in, contact me and I will send you a racer, uh, questionnaire and then we’ll find out where it is you wanna get to and from there, figure out if, uh, our program’s a good program for you or not.

I love it. And, you know, I can validate that Drew is the real deal. I mean, You how you do things. You know, I, I was actually really excited to get you on the, the podcast and interview you cuz I just, I respect you tremendously in, in what you’ve done with your athletes. I mean, your program’s second to none.

So thank you so much for coming on the podcast and uh, we’ll talk to you soon, drew. I appreciate it. Have a good one.

 Drew, you work with different types of athletes and I’m so curious to know what is the difference in a training session or even a training program between someone who races, let’s say Snow Cross, which I know you work with some pro athletes there. Mm-hmm. , but then also you’ve got Supercross. So elite athletes, top of their game would love to hear the difference in training between the two.

Yeah. The, the biggest difference that I’ve found is the time. So Snow cross your, your longest race is gonna be around 12 minutes. We’re obviously with Moto and Supercross. You’re looking at like the 16, 20 minute and then 35 minute mark. So with Snow Cross, we’re working with a heavier machine, so we’re doing a little bit more strength trend imp implies.

But we’re training for a shorter duration where with Moto we’re working a little bit more endurance, just cuz you have that longer. Gotcha. And by the way, guys, we’re here with Drew Whitehead, who is a fitness trainer in, it’s called Momentum Tally, right? Yep. And that is in Tallahassee, Florida, correct?

That is correct. I’m down here in Tallahassee in the the new Moto Mecca. The New Moto Me. Yeah. And what, what Drew’s referring to, for those of you that may not know is um, I don’t know, maybe what, 15 minutes from downtown Tallahassee. You’re so thereabouts. Yeah. Um, they’re a legend if you are not, uh, aware of motocross, Supercross, a legend.

Ricky Carmichael had what was called the Goat Farm because they were actually goats there. I don’t know if they’re there now, but Okay. Yeah, they were quite. Yeah, . And so, um, when Ricky retired, his mom actually continued for years to put on classes and actually had athletes, like one of your athletes, Kevin Morans was there.

Um, Seth Ham Hamaker, and, uh, a couple other athletes would go through and, and get training from Jeanie Carmichael, who was Ricky Carmichael, the. , um, his mom. Yeah. And then Star Yamaha came in and recently bought the property and is now, uh, really ramped up their program now that they have their own facility, their own track.

And it’s only 15 minutes from you. So what’s interesting is have you been able to tap into that resource of having your facility is so close to Star Yamaha or is it kind of hard to get into that program just because they’ve already got a personal trainer that works with their group of guys? Uh, no it hasn’t because I have a great relationship with Jeanie Carmichael, um, through the years when I was working on their fitness and she was there on the track with ’em.

So right when Star came in, they’re also Jeanie’s also helping them and Garris Swan Pool. So Swanee reached out to me immediately said, We need a gym to go to when we’re off the bike. And most of the guys live down here in Tallahassee, so they actually train at my facility every week. So it’s been awesome to have the star crew as a part of our program here, along with the athletes that I work with.

Oh, nice. So just curious, you’ve got the different athletes that all have come from a different background and they’ve all now come to one facility with Star Yamaha. Do you find that even though Suwanee might be involved in managing some of their programs, do you find that they’re all starting to merge into one very similar program?

Or do you find that each and every one of them kind of has their own unique style and likes to bring their own kind of, uh, personality, if you will, to their, to their workouts and their training? Yeah, the, the way that I see it is they are on. A program that’s as a team and they work together very well like that.

But in the, in the sport of Moto, we’re working around injuries all the time. So also, depending on the injury, depending on if they’re racing East coast or west coast, depending on if they’re racing next weekend or have two weeks till they race again, um, it is an individualized team program. And here at Momentum we also have, uh, real recovery.

So I have a doctor of physical therapy, so it’s been good to have the guys work with our physical therapists as well on injuries and things like that. Yeah. And especially motocross Super Cross, it’s not a matter of if, it’s definitely a matter of when. So in addition to the recovery side that you guys have, and now you have actually a doctor on site that can help with that process, how, how do you manage.

I’m, I just dealt with, uh, from tennis and M Mc l injury, and then a couple days later I threw out my back really bad, Ashley. It was probably the worst I’ve ever done it, so I was basically useless for a little bit, but then I, I also was at a very good point in my program where I was like, wow, I’m, I’m getting fit.

I’m getting there. Like I, I’m in a good place. Mm-hmm. , and then it was just like, stop . How do you manage the training of someone? Because you know, obviously if there’s other parts that can move and, and be worked, I mean, are we just shifting our focus and momentum to another body part or another area? Like let’s say for example, it’s a knee injury.

Are you just moving to upper body only, or what does that look like for Yeah, it’s 100% a. Very rarely are you gonna be not training through an injury, um, in the sport of snow cross motocross, Supercross. So most of the time we’re just making the shift to working what we can while we can and where we can.

So, you know, if we’re working with an A C L injury, we’re with a physical therapist to rehab the a c l doing corrective exercise and rehab exercise. But on the upper body it’s go time and we’re working on upper body strength endurance, and you’re gonna see a lot of moto athletes using equipment. Maybe not exactly how it’s meant to be, but because that’s how we can use it.

So, uh, for example, instead of doing cardio on a bike, you’re gonna be sitting on a chair on a ski machine using that upper body for cardio. Oh, interesting. Mm-hmm. , I like that. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And, and so with the guys that you’re, you’ve been working with recently, um, . I believe that how you do anything is how you do everything.

And so one thing that I test, and also as a mental performance coach, it’s also something I dip into a little bit with my athletes when they hit the gym, is really being focused, being present. Um, I sometimes will even test myself going into a version of like warrior mode before I even go into the gym.

Uh, once I get out of the car and I close the door and I walk to the gym, I walk as if I’m walking into battle. Mm-hmm. , just to test drive it and kind of play with the level of intensity they have during my workout. And it works like gold. I’m curious to see with you. I just feel like it’s easy for people, and I’ve heard people do this before, I’ve even caught my own athletes doing it, where it’s like, oh, I just want to get my workout in.

Which that phrase drives me insane. Mm-hmm. , because if you’re just trying to get a workout in. . Just stay home, have some popcorn, maybe do a TV dinner if they still exist anymore. If not, maybe you can have someone deliver one. But why? Why are you even here? Like you have to, how you do anything is how you do everything.

So my question to you is, how do you get the most out of a workout? Not just the workout itself, but maybe give me a little bit of like, how can you frame it and what do you do to guide your athletes to maybe get two to 3% more of a workout than they would if they just went into check the box? Yeah. Uh, one is it needs to be me.

Which is a huge part of a program that, uh, most people don’t have, is they know what they’re gonna do. They have a workout, but they don’t measure it. So you don’t know what you did last time versus what you’re doing this time. So having a measurable workout that you can do that you repeat over and over, or knowing what your heart rates are, your heart rate zones, there’s many ways we can measure a workout, but having intention for the workout to make that progress over.

The last one is, for me, the biggest part as a coach is if I’m with them in person, I know that they’re making progress. Or even if they’re online and they’re in a different state, like my snow cross guy, Nick, he’s up in Wisconsin, we have stats that we measure. I log in after every workout, check his data and know if he’s giving it that percentage that he needs to, or if he didn’t and if he didn’t, it’s all on paper and we know it.

And if he did, it normally shows up on the track cuz you can see the progress that he made. Oh wow. So what, what kind of data are we talking about here? I’m, I’m super curious to see like, what, what is the measurement because, and on the mental game, other than results? Um, it’s tough. I mean, I’ve dipped into what you said.

I’ve had like an intention to execution type ratio to see, you know, hey, we we’re gonna, this is our intention during, uh, qualifying one. Um, did we execute yes or no? And if we did, what, what are we giving ourselves for a number? And if there’s sevens and eights, we’re not happy. Nines and tens is what we’re looking for.

Yeah. Uh, from a, a cardiovascular standpoint, we do testing to test. Lactate threshold, VO two max, heart rate, max recovery, heart rates, all of that’s going to give us a certain amount of workload that they need during the workout, and we can measure that. So afterwards, we know if they held the right amount of watts for the right amount of time or if they didn’t.

So it’s a functional power threshold that we can see every single time they train. Now, if we’re in more of a strength workout or a off season where we’re working on really getting stronger, then obviously we have weight and reps that we can track. So depending on the workout in the time of the season, we will track different things, but we always have something that we’re tracking to know if that workout was worth doing or if you were just getting it.

Ha ha. I love it. Bust in . Um, so when you brought up the, like, the strength part, and it’s interesting on, on my end, because obviously, you know, especially with a, a sled, I mean, you really gotta have some upper body strength, some leg strength. Same thing with Moto, you know, you’ve got this 230 pound or, you know Yeah.

Device below you and, and, and it’s even higher obviously with a sled. So strength, yeah, there’s four 50 pounds. , what’s that? 450 pounds ? Yeah, that’s what, uh, about about four 50 pounds for a race snowmobile. Oh geez. So when it comes to like finding a balance between strength and then more of like a cardiovascular conditioning, how do you manage that piece of the puzzle?

Yeah, I manage it based off of the athlete’s testing numbers. So we find that some athletes come in with a really good cardiovascular base and good cardio numbers. But then on a strength side, aren’t showing it where other athletes come in, like maybe someone who played football his whole life, um, and transferred into racing.

They normally have a really good strength balance, but then you get ’em into their threshold testing and their cardio testing and it’s not there. So I will utilize the athlete’s results that they present to me on day one through our testing, and then design the program from there. Also, every time they ride, every time they race, we’re seeing data and we’re asking how they’re feeling.

So we can also go off of feel, but feeling isn’t always everything when you have all the emotions evolve, which I think is a lot where you come in. So we look at measurable data along with, you know, verbal feedback. I love it. Yeah, and, and it’s interesting because uh, I’ve got a pro golfer and there, and the big topic is fuel versus real.

you know, and mm-hmm. and how much of, and I think that might even be something with Rson, you know, whenever I hear an athlete is chasing settings, especially, we see this all the time, all too often. And, and I’ve actually bumped into en golf as well, chasing a new club, chasing a, a different shaft, a new club face, uh, you know, but then you start to realize that, well, are we chasing a setting?

Cuz a lot of times these guys will start with their baseline setting. You hear it all the time. I mean, I’ve been in this field for years and it’s like they start with a baseline setting. Chase, chase, chase, chase, chase, chase, chase. And oftentimes they come right back to where they were. Yeah. And so the field versus real concept is very real.

Yeah. It’s pretty wild how that works. Yeah. I mean, it’s something we see like every preseason, you know, going into the season, guys are chasing settings and, um, I’m going through it with a couple of my athletes right now where the, the race feeling isn’t always there for them, but it’s really easy to go down the wrong rabbit hole.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. And then, and like you said, it really is a rabbit hole because especially, you know, in the type of sports that we’re in with these motor sports where you’ve got, you know, 8, 10, 12 minutes, 20 minutes, whatever it is, that’s it. Once you go in, you know, you bring what you got and you bring your best, but there’s no mm-hmm.

it’s very difficult to adjust in real time and be adaptable within that motto. So you better hope you go on with the right vibe and, and you have the right strategy and plan and you execute on it. Because if you go down the wrong rabbit hole, especially, you see it with, um, tracks that evolve throughout the evening.

Yes. And you’ve got these athletes that get comfortable on a setting in, let’s say, not so much free practice, but maybe, you know, first qualifier. But then by the evening, not only is there moisture that’s set in, so sometimes tracks will have a little bit more moisture, be a little more slick. But even just the characteristics of the track, the lines have changed where Yep.

You almost have to predict what the suspension should be. , um, and maybe ride through it at the beginning. Yeah. And that’s where you see, uh, teams and riders that have data from years prior can really predict ahead of time. And, uh, riders who don’t have that data or don’t have a good team around them struggle a little bit more because they just don’t know what direction to go.

Yeah. You bring up data, which I think, you know, when, when it comes to auto racing, um, data’s huge. Uh, li Ppro came out, which I felt was an amazing tool, um mm-hmm. , but I really struggled to get my athletes to adopt it. Um, it seems like. There’s a lack, in my opinion, there’s a lack of data when it comes specifically to motocross and Supercross when compared.

I’m not saying there isn’t data, but when you compare it to golf, I mean, we have TrackMan, we have all these tools. The numbers are insane as far as what you can track. Mm-hmm. . Um, and obviously with auto racing, you know, you see any athlete that gets out of the car, they’re eventually gonna be sitting in front of a computer at some point looking at their, their data from their last session.

Um, do you feel that there could be a better use of data? Not so much just on the physical side. Cause I know that, you know, you’ve gotten involved in this kind of like I have where you start to dance in many areas, not just the physical, uh, in the fitness side, but do you think that there’s room for maybe more data use or do you feel like, um, we’re, we don’t need anymore?

I think that right now you can see the separation from. A factory program and a privateer program where someone’s not on who, who’s not on a team because that factory team is breaking down data every single time that they’re out on the track. Whether it be filming and overlaying a faster rider versus you looking at your data from your engine and how it was performing.

Looking back at video of your suspension and your line choice, looking at the track map versus the line that you took. All of that, if you get involved with the high level team, they’re on it and you go into the private tier pits and in between they’re sitting there eating a peanut butter and jelly. So, um, I think there’s a major difference and I think the people who would benefit the most are the riders who are a little bit more in the back and just need to take that extra little dial and turn it up to gather more da uh, get more data on what they’re doing.

But you know, . Is it harder? Yeah, it’s harder because you need more people. So you gotta have someone to film you and help you review it. So I see why it’s not always there, but I think it would make huge games for so many riders. Oh, for sure. I mean, you know, it’s, it’s night and day. I mean, even something as simple as Dart Fish, which I don’t any of your athletes use the DART Fish program?

Dart Fish is blowing up right now. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, we had it back. I was on a team, uh, the Blue Buffalo team. We had, the technology’s been around, but it, it, it kind of like lo fell out of favor I think for a little bit. Mm-hmm. with like, maybe the guys outside of maybe top 10, but everyone that I know that uses it, I mean, they, they sometimes will live on it, you know?

Yeah. I mean, you can’t beat the fact that you can like Ghost a ride and you can look at the differences. I mean, it’s like clear as day, and then if you take data and then you have the visual. , you know, then you start to close the gap between feeling real. It’s like, yeah, that’s a fact. You’re not, you know, your, your body position is off or your line choice is off.

It’s interesting. Yeah. Um, so that’s, that’s very interesting that we see that difference. And I do agree with you that there needs to be more bodies, but, you know, from my my experience, you know, you tell someone, Hey, do you wanna help me out and be part of the team? Yeah. Most people are excited that, so I wonder, do you think that’s more of an excuse than, than, than not?

I think that it’s very easy to overcome, especially at the level of being a pro athlete. And one of my racers that I’ve worked with since he was 14, Kevin Morans, Is an awesome example of that. He reaches out and gets help every weekend from the people that maybe you’re in that town where the race is going and people are so pumped to help him so pumped that they’ll pay him a hundred dollars Toine their name on his bike, right?

Like people want to help you and those same people if you can take that and apply it to your race day. I think that um, that’s one of the reasons why we’ve seen Kevin be a main event guy this year, is that he is utilizing more resources than he ever has in utilizing his platform to help him not only grow financially, but also grow his results and uh, his name in the industry.

Oh, for sure. And you know, it’s actually perfect time to move into this conversation cuz I’ve been really fascinated by, you know, we have, uh, an athlete in common that we work together with. Um, and then, you know, just looking at your. athletes from a motor sports standpoint. I see Josh Co Cartwright, who I’ve been a fan of for years.

Kevin Morans, who I met at the Goat Farm actually when I was there with another athlete. So that was the first interaction I had with him. And then you’ve got Nick Lorenz, and then you got Josh Shepherd in Snow Cross. Mm-hmm. . What I find very fascinating to me is these are all really great human beings, not just great athletes.

Mm-hmm. not just great, you know, at at their sport and their discipline, but you, you seem to gravitate towards these really great human beings. Is this by design or is this by chance? Tell me more about that. Um, my Motorsports program is only by referral. So these are people that have. You know, brought my way, referred to me, pushed my way somehow over the years.

Um, and I have a very high retention, low volume program, so I don’t work with a lot of people and I tend to work with people for a long time, which I believe is a main part of getting results is consistency. Um, so I’ve never thought about it like you just explained it, but, you know, karma, I don’t know, how are they getting to me?

It, it, it’s working. So, um, all these guys I’ve worked with for years, um, and obviously people do come and go, but my goal is to really help people on the bike, off the bike in their life and develop a relationship to be there for them. Because so much of this racing game is highs and lows and, uh, I wanna be there someone you know, who they can rely on.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. And, and it’s interesting because, um, what’s most fascinating is your one athlete, athlete, athlete, Josh Cartwright, uh, has a nine to five, has a cubicle. The cubicle actually got some, uh, TV time recently. Mm-hmm. , I believe. Mm-hmm. . So that was pretty cool. Uh, we need to get him some artwork for that cubicle, but Josh heart Right.

Impresses me because especially this season, the fact that he’s able to maintain a nine to five and still compete at an extremely high level. What I’m interested to know is you’ve got two athletes that are at a very similar pace and, and result, you’ve got Kevin Moranz and you’ve got Joshua Cartwright.

One has the nine to five job that is completely different than is racing. Yeah. And the other I believe is full-time all in on racing. That’s correct. , um, how do you manage the difference between those two? Because they’re so similar in speed and talent and ability, but yet their day-to-day is so different.

Yeah, they’re like exciting me and stressing me out every weekend, racing each other, so I love it, but I’m also like, come on guys. Like we can still be friends. , um, you know, Josh’s schedule is, he still rides the same amount during the week as Kevin. He just has his computer at the track. Um, so he rides and then hops on his computer and he rides and hops on his computer.

So we really haven’t sacrificed his overall volume of training or riding, but he does sacrifice what he does in between sessions. Um, and Kevin, even though he doesn’t have a nine to five, if you dive in more about how Kevin Morans runs his life, he is always on the go with his business and he has completely.

Completely transformed his off the bike progress over the last couple years with his YouTube and his Patreon and his sponsorship packages. And that guy, when he gets done racing, he will be a number one salesman wherever he goes. So Kevin, even though he is full-time Moto, he’s the same as Josh, honestly, when they’re not on the track, they’re on their computer doing, uh, work.

Yeah. And it, and it’s such an important piece that I have always been maybe hypersensitive to is I’ve seen it time and time again where you get these athletes, and I’m sure you’ve seen it too, you get these athletes, these fast guys fast up and comers. They’ve got the speed, they’ve got the talent, and then they kind of get to this point where the limiting factor is more so finance than it is.

And it’s interesting to me that I feel like the, the way that people market themselves, Kevin Rans, is definitely not an example of what I’m about to say, but they don’t market themselves as well. Mm-hmm. , they don’t have, um, all the channels and the ways of, of marketing themselves. Like, let’s say even like an AJ Kazak, you know, he is got the Moto Academy, he’s got an app, he’s got partnerships.

Mm-hmm. , you know, he’s considered an influencer. Mm-hmm. when, you know, a, a brand like Fox or I know FXR is big on influencer types. They like to go to the guys that are the trainers and say, Hey, listen, your word has so much value, we’d love to support you. And you know, I’ve talked to Andy at fxr and he’d rather take a guy who’s maybe a 20th place guy or, or maybe not even, but has the influence over, let’s say, 40, 50, a hundred, a thousand people.

He’d rather sponsor that guy than the guy who’s in 13th place, who’s got 8,700 followers. Which, you know, maybe a little bit more than that, but maybe doesn’t, isn’t as active on social. Yeah. Or maybe if he does anything on social, it’s just tagging someone in a video of him riding in their equipment. Do you, do you have a sense for why it?

Why is it that to me, if you agree, there is this gap in marketing. You see Kevin Morans who’s crushing it. You’ve see an agent, Kazaks crushing it, but then there’s this gap and it’s huge. Why do you think that is? Uh, cuz it’s uncomfortable. Cuz you gotta be vulnerable, cuz you gotta put yourself out there because you gotta make a couple of steps that you wouldn’t make unless you force yourself to for a couple times.

And. I think that’s the difference. It’s time and comfortability and just like you have to push yourself into that uncomfortable zone to increase your speed, you’re gonna have to do the same thing if you wanna get out and market yourself. So some guys don’t mind if they look stupid for a couple videos where other people, their ego maybe is a little bit too big that they’re not willing to put themselves out there to actually get it off the ground and get going.

Oh yeah. The first time that you do a video, I mean, even right now I have to look at a camera where your face is actually here. Yeah. So I’m tempted to look here, but instead I’m literally for an hour and a half hour, whatever, however long we go. I’m literally looking straight ahead at nothing, basically.

And it’s funny because you just get comfortable with it. Yeah. You know, and the first time you do a video, you know, it’s just like a reshoot, a reshoot, a reshoot, and then you listen to it. and you just shame yourself. And then it’s no wonder why nobody can do these happen. They need delete, delete, delete.

Yeah. I think that’s the main difference is, uh, it’s time. And these guys are, are bred to race. You know, they haven’t been trained in PR and marketing and veto production, editing and all these things. So unless they branch out and get into it on their own or they get to the highest level where the team brings in the marketing coordinator for them, uh, it’s just something that they, that they miss.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. And it’s, you know, you start to realize, even myself, you know, right now I’m on a big push of, of getting very familiar with Google ads, YouTube ads. Mm-hmm. . And that for me is where the scalability is. You know, I mean, you can only post so much on social, and I’ve already had two Instagram accounts shut down, one got to 68,000 followers, shadow banned by, uh, Instagram and, and the Zuck.

And then another one at like 10, 11,000, whatever, it was banned for posting a, a video of a stoppy. And so even with myself, I’m like, wait a minute. , you know, uh, the email marketing, I want get people right into my email or my contact list so that heaven forbid something dramatic like this happens again.

Which I think I’ve safeguarded myself quite well on this. Matter of fact, I’ve moved more towards like Twitter and YouTube, LinkedIn. But it’s interesting because even an email list, I remember when, uh, I spent a lot more time with AJ Katza, I’m like, man, you gotta start getting emails. You gotta have your own private community and you have to have emails.

And it’s funny, I sent him a document that we had from 2017 where we talked about his goals for the next year. Uhhuh and everything that he’s done now was all in that list. And so that’s really cool. Yeah, I like to call that predictable success . I love it. Speaking of predictable success, right before we hopped on this, uh, I, I got almost like stagefright from the fact that one of my online idols, this Jack dude who just blew up recently, Who is brilliant, um, really into marketing has an amazing book.

A hundred million offers I believe it is. Or hundred. Yeah. Uh, and just, and if you guys, even though this is a little off topic, if you guys want to know what an offer is and how to make a very powerful offer, this is the best time spent for you, is to read this book by Alex Hermo. Um, and if you want, hit us up and we’ll share it with you.

You are actually working with Alex, which I, part of me is, part of me is surprised, but then, you know, part of me is, Drew, drew is doing what Drew does and this is the kind of thing Drew does. So no surprise there. Walk me through a little bit of what this relationship was. I, first of all, I’d love to hear how it got started and that I’d love to know, as you’ve grown your business and it’s become so successful, what have been the keys to your success throughout that process?

Yeah, so obviously I work with a small select amount of motor sports athletes, um, about five or six per year. Uh, I also here in Tallahassee own a gym called Momentum Tally, which you see behind me there on the sun. And we’ve got about 3,500 members. Um, and we have a thousand people in a training program.

So we have strength conditioning program, personal trainer. Yoga, Pilates, stuff like that. And I’ve been really looking at how do I get outside of the walls that I’m in here at Momentum? Because from a scalability factor, the brick and mortar business, you can only fit so many people inside your walls. Um, and also how can I make better offers to get people better results, to get a better return on my investment?

And um, I actually first came across the book, a hundred million dollar offers. I listen to audiobooks every day from my house to the time I get to work. So 15 minutes every day there and back. So 30 minutes a day, I’m on a audiobook instead of listening to music. And I listen to this book and it completely changed the way that I was thinking about my business, you know, a year ago, two years ago, verse now.

So I decided to get involved with Jim Launch, which is Alex’s gym business, and. It’s been something that’s very eye-opening and they have really helped me create a platform to get outside of Tallahassee and also maximize the walls that I have here in Tallahassee. So, um, it’s been awesome. And you know, that offer, how we can relate it back to Moto would be you have to offer sponsors something to sponsor you for and offer them to pay for it.

And a lot of times things that we’re afraid to do when it comes to selling things, which is kind of a scary word, is ask for money. So when you can put down an awesome offer and the value is there for the person in front of you, they’re more than happy to pay it. So for me, it’s all about learning how to build value and how to get outside of the walls that I have here in Tallahassee while still maintaining an awesome business and brick and mortar gym here in Tallahassee.

Oh wow. So are you looking to. create a brand? I mean, are we doing like a momentum tally than a Momentum Miami? Is that kind of the direction you’re think Momentum Tampa. Momentum Chicago. Yeah. Like, um, one thing is to expand into more facilities, which I would like to get, you know, my, my operating procedures and everything a little more squared up before we go that route.

But then another thing is to, like you were talking about, get into that online space of YouTube and Facebook and Google and Twitter and Instagram, and start offering something to people that’s gonna give them value, even if they can’t come to Tallahassee. Oh, I love it. Yeah. And you know, one thing that you can do, and I’ll, I’ll do a selfless plug right now.

behind the best.co is our website. My website, and we have something called The Beast Bulletin. The Beast Bulletin has a free version where you can get, you know, emails about little tips, uh, access to reminders about podcasts that we’ve done such as this one. But we have a, the Beast Premium where every single Monday for only $33 a month, I send out an email with a Monday through Friday game plan that is focused solely on the mental game.

It’s for pro athletes, student athletes, parents and coaches. And so far we’ve got actually gotten really good, uh, feedback. We just started this month and we’ve already got several paid, uh, members and we just keep growing. We’ve got two paid partnerships that we’re. So with that said, you should consider, and I can, you know, we could talk more about it, uh, off this call, but, um, the newsletter, I’ll tell you to me cuz I struggle with scalability as well because I work one-on-one with clients, but I can only handle so many.

And, um, you know, and, and, and I can never really take a day off because mm-hmm. if I’ve got one athlete who’s, you know, competing on the, in Argentina at a PGA event, and then I’ve got another one who’s competing here sometimes. I’ve actually, I don’t know if you’ve done this yet. My guess is you have, sometimes I’ll have one TV on upstairs and one downstairs and I get my cardio in.

Just, I could probably do it on my phone, but I try to be dramatic with it. I, I, I kind of get excited to go up and down a little bit, but, um, so that’s something to consider as well, for sure. Um, one thing that I think is interesting is what. , what do you see? You know, there’s, there’s something inside of all these athletes, there’s something inside of Nick and Josh, you know, the Josh’s and also, uh, with Kevin.

What is it that you’ve noticed now that you’ve worked with these elite athletes, what do you think would maybe be like, maybe the top one or maybe top three traits and characteristics that you see that is similar or maybe even unique in each one of ’em, but what, what seems to be the difference between the good and the great?

Um, a couple things I noticed. One is the ability to get your ass kicked and keep going. . Um, you know, you’re going to have bad days and it, what matters is what you do with that bad day. And some people will get to the breaking point where, They didn’t get where they wanted to be, so they just stop. These guys don’t stop.

They keep digging. They, they dig into the mental coach, they look at their nutrition, they look at their program, they look at their bike. They’re looking and leaving no stones unturned to make progress. And it didn’t happen in one day. They’ve been doing it for years. And that’s what got them to this point.

So one is the consistency of putting in the effort, whether they were having a good day or a bad day. And even on those bad days, I’m not saying they don’t complain. They may call me and say, you know, I hated that. That was horrible. What am I doing? But they wake up the next day and they’re back at it again.

That is the number one thing. And then the second thing is that as time goes on, they work on getting a crew around them who helps push them towards their success. None of these guys are doing it alone from a factory level all the way down to a privateer who’s doing their rookie race for the first time.

So if you can grow your crew to people to support you and help you and delegate off items that you don’t need to focus on and keep flipping those rocks over for the problems you have, I think that, that, that is a main difference that I see. Not just talent, right? Talent’s one of it, but uh, you know, where they say like, Talent.

What’s the saying? Come on here. You got me here. Yeah, I know what you’re talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Talent, hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard. So that’s it. Yeah. That’s a hard one to remember by the way. You know, you gotta be talented just to remember that one . Well, I stumbled, but I got it.

Yeah. And, and you know, it’s funny because that, that’s the name of the game is you stumble, but it’s like, how resilient are you and these athletes? I mean, let’s say you and I, um, let’s say today you find out that one of your pipes in your facility breaks, um, and there’s a leak and you, you arrive and oh geez, it’s a mess and you gotta pay this.

You gotta get this guy in. You’ve got hours to. Process it, let it go, move forward. But with these athletes, you have to let go. You have to have the memory of like a nap. Yeah. Like you have to just let it go, let it go. Someone t-boned you let it go. Let it go. You come up short on a triple, let it go. Let it go.

And so it’s interesting that, that resilience is huge. And that’s actually a big part of what I do, is trying to break the emotional attachment. People have to failure and identifying with it as opposed to like experiencing it. And uh, it, it’s amazing. But I agree with you, the letting go and the resilience and the people that you keep around you is huge.

Mm-hmm. . And you know, and it’s funny because that’s probably a part of your success too, is it seems like the people that you’ve surrounded yourself with are a game players. And a game players know more a game players and it. Spreads out. You know, I mean, it, it’s, it’s interesting to to think about that.

Yeah. Um, in my business, it, it doesn’t happen with just me here at the gym. So it’s a whole team of people that, um, I put my time into in coaching and developing and having a relationship with them so they can all go spread their wings and fly and help this business flourish. Now, for your business to be doing the volume it’s doing and to be as successful it is, um, there needs to be some degree of, you know, I, I, I don’t, I’m not a big fan of the word manager.

I, I don’t. Don’t really understand that word or feel it’s that value valuable. I feel like leadership is more so the term. Um, how do you lead your team? Because the more that, and you see this with coaches, and I’ve noticed this with myself. Uh, one of the athletes that I work with, uh, last season when we did our end of season debrief and he almost won the championship, we, one of the biggest things that we came to the conclusion was that he needs to become, one opportunity is to become a better leader.

So the whole off season, I’d say more than half of our time was spent on leadership. Mm-hmm. . Um, and you start to see this. Time and time again, even with myself, I start to, uh, bump into people that are like, Hey, you know, any leadership tips? And then I just talk to a principal of a school who’s a basketball coach the other day, and he’s got a couple books on leadership.

What does, how do you lead? What’s your formula for that? Uh, I, I like to lead from the front so you, , I’ve been in this industry for 20 years. I’ve been in the trenches. I know what it takes from the bottom to the top. So for me, I like to find out what, what is the reason why someone’s here? What’s the reason why they’re working?

What are their future goals? And I help them bridge the gap of finding their sweet spot of what they’re good at while they’re here and where they’re trying to get to have them tell me what it is they want to achieve. And then I help make a plan within these walls of how we can get there. And then main thing is hold them accountable and, um, tell them what they’re doing good, and also tell ’em the hard words that maybe they’re not doing good and, and help them develop on the, on their weaknesses.

So, um, I like to lead by standing in front of them, having face-to-face conversation or FaceTime, whatever it may be, and being there for them. It’s the same way that I do with my athletes is we find out where they’re at. , we find out where they wanna get to. We bridge that gap by making a plan, make changes along the way if needed, and hold them accountable to doing what it takes to get to where they wanna be.

Mm-hmm. , I love it. Yeah. And the accountability piece is huge. I agree with you on that. You know, it’s, it’s so easy to. Kind of create these habits that can go overlooked or dismissed and before you know it, they turn into something even bigger. So to have that accountability. And I think also, you know, the people that are working with you are probably looking up to you.

They’re like, wow, you know, Josh’s got a beautiful wife, he’s now got a child. Um, he’s photogenic. You know, I saw your Breckenridge photos. I’m like, oh wow, . I’m like, are those, did he really get married or is he a part-time model? Those came out great. Um, so I think people look up to you cuz you’re, you’re leading by example, essentially.

I mean, it, people see you working with athletes, getting success with, you know, having great results with them growing your business. It’s like, how could they not look up to you and look, look for you to lead, you know, so Well I appreciate. . Yeah. That’s really cool. So I wanted to shift gears a little bit and talk more about, um, two topics that you can’t get away from when it comes to any sport, but, um, more specifically with motocross, uh, and Supercross.

Talk to me a little bit about how you manage race day nutrition and even the night before. Because I feel like every athlete I’ve worked with and I, you know, I try not to go into the nutrition piece because it’s just definitely not my wheelhouse. Yeah. And definitely not the physical fitness side. I definitely stick to the mental, but it’s interesting because I don’t think there’s ever been an athlete that I’ve worked with yet that didn’t have an opportunity to refine their nutrition piece just as much as they can improve their fitness.

Cuz it seems like the order is, you know, people focus on their fitness and that’s like 80% and then maybe 15%. actually, we’ll call it 19% on, you know, nutrition. Mm-hmm. , and then, Hey, hi. Me. I’m the 1% left behind on the mental game. I’m the last person someone calls. Um, maybe gimme some insights and some tips on that, if you don’t mind.

Yeah. With nutrition, uh, as my athletes level up and have more financial support and can afford things that cost a bit more, we move into a full nutrition testing, uh, panel with a functional medicine doctor to find out their genetic levels, their allergies, their deficiencies where they’re at, and come up with a plan that’s specific to their body.

Um, with people who maybe can’t do that or aren’t willing to pull the trigger on it. Then I like to be more towards like a paleo type. Meat, rice, potatoes, fruits and veggies. Nuts and seeds. So more like a caveman style diet. Um, but most of my athletes I work with are at the highest level and we’re digging really deep on these things and testing frequently to know specifically what it is that they want, uh, what it is that they need and where they’re lacking, what supplements they need to be on, what foods they should eat more of.

So we go deep on that. And uh, I don’t do it all by myself though. I work with a team of doctors. Um, we’ve got people at Red Bull that we work with. And then I’ve got a doctor out in Colorado that I work with, Dr. Corey King, who’s been super helpful for my athletes. And, uh, I really appreciate that guy cuz not only does he help them, but he also teaches me a lot.

Um, as far as what’s the difference between the night before the race and race. Before the race, I don’t like to change much. I like to eat how we’re eating through the whole week, um, and make sure that you’re fully nourished with a diverse nutrient profile that would look something like um, potatoes, meat, and a vegetable.

Um, as far as race day goes, you’ve got a lot of different mindsets and sensitivities on race day of what makes people feel good and what doesn’t. So we really have to dive into that athlete and figure out what it is that’s going to make them feel good mentally and physically and also actually nourish them for the demand that’s gonna be put on them.

So I don’t have a set race day plan cuz it really depends on the athlete and what they absorb well and what they don’t. But it’s much more regular than most would think. A lot of people think like we have all these foods on race day that we need to be eating. , we really need a breakfast, a meal in the middle of the day and a dinner.

And then we need to be replacing what you’re burning off during the, during the motos, and then adding in supplements and specific electrolytes and stuff like that to replenish what you lose in your sweat. Yeah. Now, how do you, how do you prevent any of these glucose spikes and things such as that? Uh, normally you’re going to need to have a lot of healthy fats throughout the day, um, which you get nuts, seeds, avocados, coconut oil, grass fed butter, things like that.

Um, you actually want some high insulin or a high glucose fuel right when you get off of the bike. So something like, Uh, rhino Power or hammer, heat or armor, every major company has one where right when you get off, you’re pounding down those carbohydrates that you just burned off. Cuz when your heart rate’s super high, uh, like you are, when you’re on the track, you’re not really burning any fat.

It’s just straight glycogen. So we do a really, really high dose of sugar or glycogen right when they get off the bike. But then all the normal meals that they’re eating through the day should be balanced. Interesting. I, yeah, I was not aware of that. Um, that’s really interesting. So, so are you doing that to prevent them from crashing then?

Uh, think about it like a gas tank in your car. So you got a full gas tank of glycogen before you go out on the track and your heart rate’s at one 90, the whole time you’re out there and your glycogen stores they’re in your muscles are getting de. as the minutes go on and the more minutes you go, the the more you gotta replenish.

So right when you pull off the track, fill that store back up with the amount of grams needed based off of how long you just trained for, also how much you weigh your heart rate. All these things play a factor. So it is specific to the rider, but if I’m talking generalities, um, we’re replacing like 20 to 40 grams of glucose every time they come off the track.

Oh, wow. And it, what kind of form is that in typically? Uh, I like to use a form of like rice or corn. So like a rhino power, carbo fuel, or hydration fuel. Um, I’ve been working with the guys at Rhino Power for a long time. Their products tend to do really well. Some people have a little bit more sensitive.

And we may move to a different type of carb, like a maltodextrin or a dextrous. Um, but I tend to use glucose for most people. Um, and then also we can have some fruit or things like that. But when, when you look at a Supercross day, you’ve got some really quick turnaround times until you get a longer break.

So we tend to do like liquid, really quick digesting gels or drinks during the day. And then we have that longer break then get a real. What are your thoughts on like the scratch, liquid iv, those type of, uh, tools to kind of stay hydrated? All those are gonna fall into the category of what I was just speaking of.

So I like to do there, there’s a couple things you, you have to work around where you’re working with a, with a high level athlete. One is what they can digest well, two, what their actual demand is and three, who the heck are they sponsored by right . So, um, most of the time the, the goal is to use the sponsored product.

So I like to look at what, you know, levels of product that company has and pick and choose the right ones and do some testing with it, and hopefully that product works well for them. If not, um, we’re gonna find something that works. Yeah, you can always, you know, Take out the kitchen and do a little dumpy dump and do a little refilling.

Yep. , no, nobody does that. I’m sure. Certainly not with the Monster Energy cans to the Red Bull cans right after an event. Um, so, uh, one thing that I wanted to kind of hear, if you’ve had any interesting anecdotes on this, when you talked about the functional medicine doc, um, the few people, I’m surprised not more people have done it, and a matter of fact, it’s on my list of things to do.

Um, I actually just found out I had an almond allergy like two months ago. So here I am living on this planet for more than 20 years and, uh, found that out recently. And I’m like, all of a sudden I was keeled over and I, I was like, I am dying. , what is this? But it’s just interesting. I said to myself that was like the wake up call for me.

I’m like, wow. How am I just knowing this now and, and if I’m knowing that almonds are an issue, what else is an issue? You know? Yeah. And so what I’m curious to hear from you is any anecdotes of any real shocking revelations from this panel of testing where you can find either your allergies or foods that you don’t digest well.

Have you heard anything interesting that was surprising to you and your. The most surprising thing to me is that everyone’s different. So, you know, you really can’t just say X food is bad for all moto athletes, or X food is good for all moto athletes. So we do have some generalities that if you’re not gonna go that deep in your testing, you know, we’ll push you towards.

But really when you do these testing, you find out based off the person’s genetic history, based off their medical history, how many antibiotics they got, they’ve been on, how much surgeries they’ve been on, what amount of stress have they been under, have they ever had mono or Epstein bar or something like that.

Um, , all these things play a factor in how well they absorb nutrients and what foods affect them positively and negatively. So that’s why I like to go the full deep dive and figure out all of it so that we know we’ve left no stone unturned because the demand of the travel schedule, the training schedule, the mental load, the stress that these guys are under, um, it all takes a toll if you don’t have good nutrition.

Oh, for sure. And it’s interesting because when you had mentioned Epstein. Um, I’ve been surprised to hear it seems, at least my perspective and perception. Whether it’s true or not, I’m not sure, but my belief is, and you can tell me otherwise, that Epstein bar in over training seems to be an issue for sure in Supercross and motocross.

Not so sure if it is, uh, in other sports. But, um, so one, do you agree or disagree on the over-training and also if Epstein Barr is closely linked to that, and then secondly, um, what e e even if you do or do not, what are the signs of over-training? Because it’s a very real thing. I mean, you know, we have overthinking in my field, which is , you know, runs rampant, but you know, it’s hard sometimes cause you say, well, what am I supposed to just not think about this?

And so it’s like, what’s the line between thinking and overthinking? What’s the line between training and over-training? Yeah. Um, You know, you said, what are some things you can, you can look at to know if you’re over training or not? And the first one is gonna be how well you’re recovering, but the, the question is, you know, from a, from an analytics standpoint, how do you actually know if you’re recovering or not?

Just by saying, I’m tired or not in the morning. And things that we look at are resting heart rate, heart rate variability, how well the athlete’s heart rate is coming down during exercise. Um, how long they can hold their threshold or their, their, where they tested at originally for. So we know if someone is over training or not.

A lot of times you’ll see athletes nowadays we’re using aura rings or whoop bands or um, you know, polar has recovery tracking on their watches, so does Garmin. So we’re using tools to make sure that it’s not a guess. Um, so if I see an athlete whose normal resting heart rate. is 42 and after a race weekend, it’s Monday.

They had a long travel schedule and they’re up at 48. That’s a big difference between 42 and 48. And we’re gonna pull back and go lighter that day. It’s not a max out day, it’s not a day where we’re pounding motos all day. Um, where if your normal resting heart rate’s 42 and you wake up on Tuesday morning, or we’re back at 42 or 41 or 43, we know that it’s, that it is go Tom.

So we’re using tools to see and measure things, and as technology has developed, this has become so much better from someone who’s working remote with athletes because I can see all the data without, without asking. Uh, I just get it every morning. So, um, do I think it’s important? Very important. Do I think that Epstein bar and these type of sicknesses are common in Moto?

Yes. Um, I’m not a medical doctor, but I have experienced a lot of it over my 15 years being in the industry. Yeah. And I mean, why do you think that is? I mean, and I don’t know if it’s an accurate statement to say that it seems to be more of an issue in our sport. I mean, we’ve seen it with Dean Wilson. Uh, we’ve seen it with a lot of guys.

I think maybe even Ken Roxon. You know, I just feel like the, the tr the amount of training and just never lifting and never stopping and just this unrelentless. Fight. I, I just, there’s a part of me that feels that we are making a, a, a big mistake and that, you know, maybe we’d perform better if we just backed down, and maybe it’s only 10%, but that 10%, just like you said, the heart rate goes from resting, heart rate goes from 42 to 48.

All right? Sure. It’s only six points, but only six points is not only six points. Yeah. And I would argue that maybe even 5% to single digit percentages, up to five, to maybe 9%, who knows? Maybe just that much of a bringing it down on the training could make a difference. I mean, do you think, what, what do you think prevents people from recognizing the signs of over training and maybe having a little bit more balance in their life?

Yeah. the want to succeed and always work harder to get better, uh, makes you feel like going easier. You’re, you’re not going to get where you wanna be, but sometimes that is the right thing to do. So I think when you get a good team around you who helps you monitor and take the emotions out of it, it can really be helpful.

And I think that the industry has progressed so much through the years with, um, with tracking these type of things and learning when it’s going to come on and how to prevent it. But when you look at the travel schedule combined with the workload, combined with the past surgeries and antibiotics and, uh, lack of good gut biome or immune system, all those things play a factor in, in athlete tanking, uh, and getting sick.

Maybe easier than, than what you would think. Yeah. And it’s funny, you, you talk about the microbiome, there’s a gentleman who grew up with my father. Who actually lives down the street, not even a mile from where I am now. And, uh, , his name’s Ralph and good old Ralph is 75, whatever he is, and Ralph will zip by you if you’re going to get your mail, whoa, right by on his bicycle, not motorcycle, not car, bicycle.

And then you’ll see, and then what you’ll do is you’ll go about your day, you’ll check your emails, you’ll order your online pizza. It will be delivered in 30 minutes or less as promised. Thank you. Dominoes. And then two hours pass. And then for some reason you’re outside watering your flowers and doing what you do.

And here goes Ralph again. Two hours later, boom. And then so one time I’m like, you know what? I saw it happen a couple times. And I’m like, I’m done with this. I’m like, Ralph ain’t getting by me next time. So I actually stopped Ralph and I said, Ralph, I gotta ask you. , how are you doing this? And it was funny, we talked for almost an hour and a half and he spoke the whole time about just that.

Mm-hmm. , the gut microbiome. And he’s big on Caer Keer. Yeah. Keifer Keifer. Yeah. Uh, he’s big on fermented yogurt. It’s fermented milk, essentially. So full of probiotics. Yeah. And it was, what was wild is he brought me, some said, go buy some milk tomorrow morning and I’ll stop by. He brought it and I kept it going for a while, and I don’t know, I, I honestly, that was right around the time where I was in the best fitness.

After that, I was in the, the best physical condition I’ve been in, in possibly ever my entire life. And then now I’ve moved to kimchi and sauerkraut, which also has some fermentation, which by the way, if you’ve ever tried Kim, , that stuff is good. ? I’m a fan. I’m a fan. Yeah. I’m a big fan. I mean, uh, really good stuff.

Um, what, so how, how does that all, how does that all work? Like, and, and, and depending on the foods that we eat, cuz like, for example, I talked to Alden Baker, uh, one time and he’s very like anti red meat and he talks about the hormones within there, you know, and then you, there’s some people that are plant-based.

What’s the interaction there? Like what, what, what are we really looking at when we talk about the microbiome? Like maybe gimme like a, not like, just a general idea of what are we trying to achieve here with these probiotics? Yeah. The, the, your gut biome or your stomach and everything that’s in there is the first step of your immune system.

So on a schedule, if you’re looking at an athlete, like a pro golfer or a Moto or Supercross or snow cross who’s always traveling on planes in airports, Nights where you have low sleep, other nights where you have high sleep, that all is going to affect your immune system. And the gut is the beginning of the immune system.

So what we look at first with athletes is making sure that they have a healthy gut and got surgery a year ago, had my a c l redone when I got done, had to go on antibiotics. Those antibiotics killed off all that bacteria in my stomach. So now that athlete is going to need to rebuild that bacteria. And there are some general things you can do just by taking a multi strain probiotic and eating kimchi and fermented foods.

Um, but also we can test for things like that to see it exactly is well what it is that the athlete needs. So, um, I’m a huge proponent of finding out what is going on in your physiology to figure out what it is that you need to do to get to the next step so you can actually measure. Whether someone’s got streptococcus pneumonia or what, you can actually measure that in the gut biome.

Are you saying that that’s the level of detail that you guys sometimes will explore? We’ll find out where they’re deficient and anything that is a red flag. And then with the team of doctors, implement supplements and products to help them get back to a state of, uh, balance or homeostasis so that they can perform their best.

And a lot of times that starts with the gut and it’s going to be two parts. One is going to be removing the things that are messing it up, and two is going to be adding things in to rebuild it. So most of the time that comes with some sort of elimination diet and things that people don’t wanna hear, but is super common, is eliminating gluten, dairy, and sugar.

At least in a short term to help all that bacteria get back to balance and then adding in supplements based off of the person. Um, and then once they get back to a state of balance, people can tolerate things differently. So I don’t have a one way to do it. I like to work with the individual and with a team of doctors to figure it out.

Exactly. Yeah. I love that. And, um, it, it brings me to the, the thought of, I recently test drove the carnivore diet. I personally loved it. I thought it was great. I felt very much, I’m a Joe Rogan fan and you know, he’s a big fan of the carnivore diet. I also love meat too. It’s my favorite thing to eat, especially red meat.

Um, really enjoyed it. Felt the strongest I’ve ever been and actually ended up having my per meat, matching my personal best on flat bench. And now I think I can exceed it. Mm-hmm. . Um, and I give some credit to it. Um, how do you view. Carnivore versus plant-based diets? I mean, can, can an athlete truly succeed?

I mean, we see someone like, uh, Lewis Hamilton and F1 has had a great career, maybe not as aggressive. Uh, what they’re doing is maybe motocross, Supercross, but not, probably not that far off because I mean, the, the amount of GS they’re experiencing, um, who knows how much calories they’re burning. Maybe it is very similar to Supercross motocross, he’s plant-based and other athletes are as well.

And maybe it’s trending lately. How do you see the differences between an athlete’s plant-based and carnivore? Um, obviously if you’re plant-based, there’s things that you’re not going to be getting from your food, so you’ll need to supplement them. Um, we saw Dylan Fernandez win an outdoor championship and actually smoke everybody and come on strong late in every motto.

He’s plant-based. Um, we got Eli Tomak and Ricky Carmichael who’ve dominated the sport for a long time and they meet. So I really think it comes back to the person and if you’re doing it correctly for your body or not. Um, personally not a big fan of a plant-based diet. I, uh, think that a rotational diet of different types of proteins, from game meat to red meat, to fish shellfish, um, and then a nutrient, a nutrient dense, uh, vegetable profile is really important.

So for me it’s the, not really, I’m not on plant-based train, but if an athlete presented to me a situation where it made sense to go that way, uh, I 100% would. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I can see it. And it’s just interesting you start to realize, It always comes down to the same thing, which it really has to be customized.

And I think a lot of it’s your beliefs too, you know? Mm-hmm. , if you believe that red meat harms you, then I believe in the placebo or the nocebo effect. Um, I see it happen all the time, you know? Um, yep. It’s amazing the power of the mind. I mean, I remember one time I was doing, uh, uh, a movement, uh, it was actually flat bench again, and by mistake, I had, I, I was going for a certain weight that I knew I should be able to do a certain amount of times.

So I had this expectation. I said, all right, I should be able to do this, whatever it was six times, um, had put on mistakenly an extra 10 pounds, and sure enough, . I did the exact amount of reps. Yeah. The exact way that I would’ve thought. And I’ll tell you, I remember how mad I wa I don’t, I usually don’t get too aggressive with myself.

I don’t get too mad. But I was mad for a very long time. And I think I let myself stay mad because I think anger’s interesting. And you know, I think it gets a bad rap because the truth is, is anger is just built up emotion. Mm-hmm. . And it’s it. So anger in the emotion app is built as a result of the energy that’s built as a result of it isn’t so much the problem as to where do you expel or send that, you know, what’s the next decision you make with it.

And for me it was like, That, that is not happening again. And it’s funny because ever since, um, I tend to, even the gym I go to now that I’m gonna go to after this, it, I think the average age is like 22. And it’s funny because I don’t see anyone push to failure. And then here I am a couple years older and I’m like, I feel like I’m pushing a failure.

And I’m like the only guy. And I don’t get it, you know, but it’s all because of this, this one incident that happened probably 20 years ago, no joke that long ago. It stuck with me because it burned such a hole in my brain. Yeah. That I’m like, I’m never doing that again. So it’s in interesting that you could see that anger can be used for good in this case.

You know, it’s, it’s, it’s had a positive impact on my workouts ever since. Mm-hmm. And, um, some people go the opposite way with, with Amber. Yeah. And it doesn’t, I had an awesome example of that at the Houston Super Cross. Uh, one of my racers, Jace Owen, worked with him for a long time and Jace is one of those riders that when he’s pissed, he absolutely rides his ass off.

And he went down in the first corner and I’ve never seen that kid hit a set of whoops. So fast and came back up, made it right into the main, through the heat race, even though he was laying in the corner dead last came off the track. And, uh, I’m like, dude, What just happened to you in the, whoops, you haven’t went, that you went twice as fast as you did all day through the, whoops.

And he just, that anger, you know, unlocked a part of his brain that he wasn’t willing to unlock without it. That is wild. Yeah, and it’s interesting because some people, I think that, and, and this is an area I’m currently exploring, is trying to better distinguish this with my, my athletes. One word that I do not like to hear is frustrated because frustration very rarely has something positive come from it.

But when someone’s angry, you do sometimes see that. And I think a lot of times it is, you know, whenever you’re emotion emotional, uh, I always say, is it a challenge or is it a. , you know, because if you view something as a threat, then you start to go down that cascade of sympathetic nervous system, fight flight or freeze fight flight.

Yeah. But if you look at something as a challenge, because you know, if you have an obstacle, I mean, it’s your choice how you look at it. But when you look at it as a challenge, like my golfer, we actually have challenge holes. He plays golf to the best that he can, but we always have two challenge holes for every 18.

And you know what? We’ve studied it and looked at it sure as hell always seems to do better on the challenge holes . So, you know, but, but then it’s interesting. So it’s like, all right, what? What do we do? Add two more? Uh, then you get four challenge holes that diminish the effect. But it was very telling because it’s like, wow, you know, you do well when you’re challenged, but then you start to realize it’s all about keeping that frame towards that challenge and avoiding the threat and the cascade of events that happens after.

Yeah, very interesting. It’s, you know, what can you do with it? How do you channel it? Where does your mind go when you get to that point and what’s the effect of it? And um, you can see people who ride horrible when they’re pissed off and they just make a ton of mistakes or other people that just let their brain go and the talent comes out.

So, um, it’d be cool to have, and maybe you do, to have a like formula for. Yes, it’s, there’s, for me, I’m big on, um, challenge versus threat. Uncertainty, uncomfortability the unknown. Um, fear of the unknown, believe it or not, is interesting. It gets, it’s not talked about enough. Um, if you say, oh, I have a fear of failure, well, that also feeds into the fear of the unknown.

Your fear of failure is not being sure whether or not you are gonna fail or not. Um, and also fear of public speaking. It’s really the fear of the unknown because you have the fear of the speaking, but you, you just don’t know how you’re gonna do. And a lot of athletes, that’s why you see athletes that have these pre-race rituals or routines is it is in, at a time when they’re so uncertain and so uncomfortable with that uncertainty.

It’s the one. that is certain. And it’s amazing when you start to just think of the word certainty, you know, and you start to realize that it all goes back to when we were Neanderthals, where, you know, I don’t know if I’m gonna be alive tomorrow. Mm-hmm. average life, expectancy’s 30, I’m 28, which is like the, you know, like, let’s say I, I’m a Neanderthal.

I’m not 28, but Yeah. Yeah. Let’s say I was 28. It’s like, wow, that’s like ancient, like you’re like a, a noble who knows whatever they called them back then, or maybe you’re like a, whatever that means they probably, you know, had some sort of title for it. But what was interesting is just, you know, it’s still inside of us, you know, technology’s evolved, but like the brain doesn’t just all of a sudden, Keep pace with where we’re at.

We’ve advanced as a society faster than some of the deeper like lizard brain. Like, cuz the, that part of the brain is more like in the interior side, you know? Sure. The frontal con uh, cortex has grown. That has happened. So our cognitive ability, our abilities to like, imagine and things like that, look into the future.

But it’s funny because, um, you see it all the time that people are still afflicted with this uncertainty, the unknown because, you know, you don’t know what’s gonna happen. Back in the day you went to go get a couple berries for your tribe and a T-Rex, it’s like, whoa, , this is over. I’m done. You know? I mean, so you realize that fear and the unknown and uncertain was something important because it w it had to exist to keep you alive, right?

Yeah. And I’ve seen, uh, you know, some of my athletes that work with you, their pre-race rituals develop, um, and I call it being connected to source. They’re just connected to it. It’s what they do. It comes to them. They’ve done it so many times that it gets them into a place that’s where they need to be.

And um, at first it’s kind of something they have to think about, but then once they get going on it, they’re just in the zone once they get done with it. Oh, it’s true. Yeah. And, and it’s interesting the zone, there’s a whole bunch of check marks that tend to need to be checked. And you know, one of ’em is you need to be challenged.

Uh, one of ’em is you need to have a certain level of excitement. And you know, that’s another interesting one too, is people don’t realize that, um, when you say that you’re nervous, there’s a cascade of events going on within your body that are not all that different than if you’re excited mm-hmm. . And so really it’s the frame, right?

Think about like my favorite examples, like a rollercoaster. , if you’re kind of on the edge on roller coasters, you’re going up and it’s like, tick, tick, tick. Oh my god. Oh my God. You’re totally fearful. You’re sweaty pupils dilated, heart rate elevated, but then all of a sudden from boom, you go down and it’s like the frame changes and they’re like, this is awesome.

Yeah. It’s like, well wait, you were just about ready to bail and, and wave, wave off the thing and see if you get the operator to hit the stop button, and now all of a sudden you’re up like, this is the best thing I’ve ever done. . You know, so it’s amazing. You can see this shift in how people feel and you realize how, how fleeting feelings can actually be.

It’s, it’s pretty fascinating. Yeah. I you, that part of your program has helped me as a trainer for sure. Oh, it’s so much fun. Yeah, it’s, it’s fun. The mental game is great. So let me ask you this last question. , obviously your future is bright and you know, I can only imagine where you’re gonna be and just, I, I was gonna say five years, and I’m like five years.

That’s like an eternity. Drew’s probably thinking like six months. Um, what, where do you see yourself in the next, you know, in, in your business in the next year or two? And, and also, you know, what version of yourself, what, how do you need to change and grow in order to achieve that result? Uh, for me, where I see myself is continuing to develop, uh, I call ’em ancillary revenue streams, so other ways that I can bring in revenue that help people.

And also along the way, I really love creating jobs for people to help provide for them and teach them and kind of show them the way of how I’ve done it. So I’m, I see myself in the next six. Um, you know, in the last six months I’ve started a physical therapy practice. I’ve grown the actual gym business here.

Moving forward, I’m looking at getting into the online space and having programs to help people in the motor sports, uh, industry. Also people who wanna transform their mindset in their bodies. Um, and then moving forward after that, I’d love to have, like we talked about, uh, it might have been off air at the very beginning, but moving into more locations of momentum.

So momentum tally Momentum, Tampa Momentum, Phoenix Momentum, Chicago. I just like to say that and put a lot of out there because for me, when I put it out there and I keep on the daily grind of everything and keep my focus, um, it tends to blossom. So I’m really excited about the future. in my business, uh, the fitness business, and also I’m looking at really leveling up the level of athletes that I’m working with and watching my athletes grow, continuing to push them and work with a small amount of high level athletes for the years to come.

I love it. Great answer. Yeah, and I mean, it, it just, it’s exciting to know that there’s so many opportunities there. It’s just whether you’re gonna take ’em or not, whether you’re gonna, like you said, put it out there and, and you have to have some degree of blind faith and courage to be like, Hey, this is what I’m gonna do.

And, um, but I think what’s interesting is, you know, you’ve proven to yourself that if you say you’re gonna do something, you do it. So I think when you say something, there’s something inside of you that says, well, hey, you said it. And I mean, Hey, what? We’ve got it. Hey, it’s recorded. I’m not giving that piece out and you don’t want me to, but you know, I, I’ll bet you anything, you know, here we are.

What’s it? March 1st, I think, or second. Um, first. So, you know, we’ll see where you’re at in six months. This will be a nice little thing that you can look back on and be like, wow, how much, how much have I grown and change the six months? And based on what you’ve been doing, uh, I wouldn’t be surprised if you even surprised yourself.

So, um, how can people reach out to you? How can people find you? And I did not ask this yet to add to it. Um, can people come and train with you that don’t race? Uh, you know, at the highest level? Is, is there also a gym facility? I’m assuming that that’s a big part of your business. Maybe, you know, let us know about that as well.

Yeah. Uh, one, you can always find me. My main platform is Instagram right now, DW performance, drew Whitehead. Um, you can reach out to me, Tom. Gimme a follow, shoot me a message. Ask me a question. Love to communicate with people there. Um, if you’re in Tallahassee, I have a facility, momentum Fitness. We’re 25,000 square feet.

I’ve got a team of, uh, 25 trainers who can help you reach your goals, whether it be athletic goals, weight loss, strength. We’ve got pro bodybuilders, I’ve got Pilates and yoga. I’ve got a lot of ways that we can help transform people if you’re actually in Tallahassee. So love to have in, in the facility. I do have a team of trainers that work with clients online as well.

So if you’re looking at getting involved in a program and you’re an amateur, you’re a weekend warrior, we do that also. So you can get in, contact me and I will send you a racer, uh, questionnaire and then we’ll find out where it is you wanna get to and from there, figure out if, uh, our program’s a good program for you or not.

I love it. And, you know, I can validate that Drew is the real deal. I mean, You how you do things. You know, I, I was actually really excited to get you on the, the podcast and interview you cuz I just, I respect you tremendously in, in what you’ve done with your athletes. I mean, your program’s second to none.

So thank you so much for coming on the podcast and uh, we’ll talk to you soon, drew. I appreciate it. Have a good one.