Behind The Best Podcast

Hosted ByDr. Jay Cavanaugh

The Behind The Best Podcast is a behind-the-scenes look at the people, mindset, and secrets behind the best athletes in the world.

Unlock Unbeatable Sports Performance: Experts Dr. Jay Cavanaugh & Joe Cancellieri Share The Secrets


 Joe, I’m totally curious to see when you get your first like big client, like a, uh, pro athlete, what, what led up to that? Because there’s so many people in business that are always trying to get that first client or get that first. Ideal client, let’s say. Um, what led up to you getting that first client where you’re like, all right, now we’ve got some momentum, now we’re hanging in the right direction.

Kind of walk me through what that progression of your career looked like

early on. Yeah, I mean, and in short, I think, you know, it was a culmination of things. You know, obviously educating myself first and really trying to decide what I wanted to do and being specific in what I wanted to do. Uh, I had my master’s in exercise physiology, and then from there I, I just kind of started to fine tune my skillset and that really has never stopped and I think it will never stop.

And as exercise science, physiology, the understanding of the human body, it’s constantly changing. So going into this whole journey with that, that ideology that I can never stop learning was something that I always held deep. Myself and you know, since then I think it’s helped me create relationships from going to seminars or, or going to courses or doing online courses and meeting people in the industry.

And, you know, once the education part was outta the way, it was just kind of sacrificing my time and. You know, you gotta kind of start off in the beginning with, you know, I was training clients and high, high level athletes for free for a little bit. And, um, I think that’s a little sacrifice that you have to do in the beginning.

And then once people start to trust in your skillset and others start to view and see you with high level people, I think it starts to raise eyebrows and they’re like, oh, who is this person? And, uh, maybe look into them. And then it kind of just, it just organically grew from there. And, It was just me kind of just being myself and you know, working with these high level athletes and it just slowly started to build and build and build.

And luckily I am where I am today and, uh, yeah, the journey still continues cause I’m constantly trying to, to better myself, just to really better the athletes that I’m around on a daily basis. And, Continuing to create great relationships and just learn because I mean, I feel as if, and I always say this is, the more I learn, the less I know.

So, uh, I’m constantly trying to pursue, um, greater kind of, I guess, educational, uh, journeys, if you want to call it that. But just bettering myself so I can better the people around me.

I love it. Guys, we’re with Joe Canary. Uh, he’s based out of Orange County, California, correct. Yep. And he is a sports performance specialist.

And uh, I’ve been following you for years on Instagram and then when we created the podcast, uh, I all of a sudden bumped into your stuff and said, how have I not introduced you to the podcast yet? So, kind of wanna go back to what you just said, which I, I think is super powerful. I think that a lot of us when it comes to business, you know, and I just figured we’d start off on the business side cuz.

We have a lot of people, um, that are looking to like start their own businesses in, uh, the niche that you’re in. And, um, I think what’s interesting is that people overthink it and I think that it’s just a matter of getting started and people. Tend to make too much of a put place, too much of a focus on the dollar amount and the money they need to make, and it’s like, whoa.

It, like you said, organically will grow if you just start by saying, how can I help someone with a specific problem solve that problem? That’s it. Like that, that’s how you start a business. I mean, that’s all I did. And you get in front of the right people, which, you know, I did that with a aj actually, I’m wearing one of those shirts now.

An AJ motor, uh, AJ Karo Motocross Academy. Got my two clients. I did charge them 67 bucks a month, and I was talking to ’em every day. It was a great deal, but I love how you didn’t. Charge anyone at the beginning and just started. Um, what do you think is the biggest mistake that people make? Even just with the way that they think about business?

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people think they’re just gonna start making money right off the bat, and you know, that never happens. I mean, and also too, you know, you have this grand plan and really kind of what I’ve experienced is nothing ever really goes to plan and you have to. Dynamically be able to adjust to what’s thrown at you.

And that’s kind of life in itself anyways. So, um, yeah, I mean, I think a, a big thing is passion, obviously. And I think if you kind of have a deep passion for what you do, uh, you know, you never feel like you work a day in your life and, you know, you go to work every day motivated, excited to wake up and.

That just plays a huge role in a lot of different things. Your self-image, your self-efficacy, and you know, just kind of that grit and perseverance that you have as a person can, can just help you grow. And I think that’s something that I have. And, you know, I, I’m grateful to be in a position that I’m in and I just kind of just maintain that.

And I, and I try to push every day. So I think if you put yourself out there and like you said, surround yourself with the right people and. Um, take risk. Uh, they pay off and they might not pay off right away. And kind of just like how it is for athletes, you know, they’re working for years and years and years and they might not see an immediate result, but.

You know, trust the process kind of mentality, I guess you can say.

Yeah, for sure. And, and I, I love how you said, um, the analogy that you used about, you know, wanting have a goal, but sometimes it just never, not, sometimes it does. I agree. Yeah. Almost seemed to never work out the way that you think, you know, and it’s almost like Christopher Columbus was probably gotten to in one of his boats and was like, Hey, let’s head.

That way. And, uh, you know, let’s see what happens. And, but it, but the key thing was, is he had belief, he had conviction. He had a means and, and somewhat of a plan as to how he’s gonna get there, but he ultimately probably didn’t quite know where he was gonna end up. And, um, so I think it’s really interesting and you start to realize that, um, targets and goals are two completely different things.

And I think goals tend to be black or white. You know, if I say I’m gonna lose 20 pounds by August 1st, and I lose 19, Then I failed. It’s like, okay, but well, you lost 19 pounds and you developed a process and a habit that if you continue for another month, we’ll get you to the result. But I think a lot of us have this black and white thinking this all or nothing.

And uh, I like how you use, you know, you think about targets and aiming for things and realizing that the function of time is not always something we can control. Um, love how you have done that. So. Kind of bring me through, you’ve got a wide variety of clients that you’ve worked with. Um, what, what makes them come to you?

I think it’s interesting that I’ve asked so many people what makes you unique? Why do people, why are people drawn to you? And I think that of all the people that ask that to, I think if I ask that to you, you’re gonna have a damn good answer. So I would love to hear, I would love to hear what makes you unique and different.

What draws people to you in your opinion? Um,

I think it’s just the versatility that I have and the understanding of an individual and how I just think that there’s not one way to solve an issue or to get better, and I’m extremely open-minded and if I don’t know something, I’ll admit it or I’ll reach out for help to another professional and, and obviously the same genre of what I’m doing and I, I’m really just constantly pushing myself, um, just for understanding the human body as much as I can.

And, I think my athletes see that. And I’m just myself and I, I, I truly care about each and every one of these athletes that I work with. And I think they can sense that. And you know, I tell them all the time, if you want to come in here at at 12 at night or one in the morning, I’m here for you. So I think it’s just the, the relationships I create with some of these athletes.

And I think that goes a long way. And also, obviously my background and. Again, how I’m constantly just trying to, to learn more and more about the human body and. Um, yeah, I, I, I kind of just use all these different skills and techniques to, to make someone the best version of themselves. And I think that’s the key, is understanding what they need from a physical, uh, a mental perspective and just working with them and showing them that I’ll be there for them and showing them to trust in what we’re doing.

And, you know, that comes with time and, you know, when I first get an athlete, I think, It’s, it like you would think is it’s gaining their trust and, you know, I obviously didn’t have that, you know, starting off and it was just really just putting in the work and showing them that I’m here every day to show up because I have athletes that come every day.

I have athletes that are two days a week. I have athletes that are maybe just one day a week, just depending on where they live in their schedule. So, um, I think to summarize that, it’s just a culmination of my, my skillset. Uh, my dedication to them and over the years, all those things have made me a better professional.

As I’m working with different athletes in different sports, it’s opened my mind to kind of say, well, okay, I have a MLB player doing, you know, this specific movement, but you know what? Surfing’s rotational as well. So maybe the surfers would benefit from mis exercise that was not a traditional. Movement in their training regimen, I guess you would say.

So over the years, just working with so many different people and meeting so many different people, I’ve, I’ve broadened myself in in more ways than I can ever imagine.

Oh, I love that. Yeah. And, and it’s interesting. I didn’t even realize that. It’s true. When you have all these different athletes, they, not only are you there to serve them, but then there’s a relationship, so there’s an interaction.

So you’re getting feedback, you’re maybe learning some things from them. They might say, Hey, I’ve got this tool that I use. What do you think of it? You’re like, well, I never even knew it existed. And absolutely. Then now all of a sudden you’ve got another tool in your toolbox to give another athlete and they’ve probably done something similar for you as well.

So, uh, I like that you have that variety. Where, what athletes? This, this is this, this one might get you in trouble, so you give it one answer, which athletes. Tend to be the ones where overall you think from, and it’s whatever you define an overall athlete, because there’s always the question, you know, what’s the most physically demanding sport, right?

It used to be soccer. Then people say M m A, everyone’s got their own opinion, so I think you’re free to speak on that one. But yeah. Which sport do you think is the most demanding and which athletes do you think. Have to be at the peak performance in order to get the results they’re looking for, where there’s no leeway, there’s no exceptions.

Like you have to be perfect as close to perfect as possible.

Yeah, I mean that’s a, that’s a tough question, but, uh, I guess there’s a lot of way layers in that question because. There are sports where your, your literal life is on the line, right? So you got, you know, moto gp, Supercross, motocross, um, any type of road racing where there’s high speeds, you’re jumping in the air.

And that’s a physically demanding sport. So if I were to look at it that, that way, I’d be like, wow, that’s, that’s pretty heavy in terms of, you know, you could die. So, um, but then there’s skillset sports, right? Like all those sports have a specific skillset and. You know, you have to take that in consideration as well.

And then you have maybe less physically demanding sports, but the skill sets are extremely high, like baseball. And I work with a lot of M L D players and you know, I think that sports overlooked because maybe the general person who’s gone to MLB game is like, this is boring. This guy’s been sitting in the outfield for three innings and hasn’t moved.

But the actual skillset of hitting a baseball, and if you look at the numbers behind that, You know, if you are batting 300, you’re amazing. And that’s a three out of 10. So you’re failing 70% of the time and you’re the best in the world. So if you look at it from that, I personally believe that baseball is the hardest skill sport.

Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sport, and all I gotta do is look at the numbers. If you’re, uh, if you’re actually hitting the ball 30% of the time, you’re amazing. So that is another way of looking at it too. So there’s all these different kind of layers within each sport, and if you ask each athlete, they’re gonna tell you that their sport’s the hardest.

So, because they’re putting their heart and soul into it. So, You know, football, super, physically demanding. You know, there’s only 17 games in the season, so baseball’s 162 Motog, I think is 20 to 21 races. So it, there’s so many layers and I think each sport has its own difficulties physically and mentally.

And it’s very interesting because one of the cool things that happens with the clients that I work with is, They interact with one another. And I think it’s, you know, one guy’s coming in and the other person’s finishing their session and then there’s some overlaying sessions as well and they get to kind of chat it up.

And I think it’s, it’s kind of cool to listen to their conversations cuz they’re so interested in one another sports and you know, they’re like, ah man, I don’t know how you can do that. And the other one’s saying the same thing back. So they all have such a, I guess, respect, uh, for one another’s sports.

And I do as well because, you know, When you’re telling me this is extremely hard, I believe you, you know, like, and then the same goes for everyone else. So it’s, it’s a hard sport. Uh, it’s a hard question, sorry. And I don’t know if I can answer it and say that there’s one, you know, sport that is at the top of that list.

Well, I love how you, you answered it because really me as a mental performance coach, where, where my mind goes with what you said about the 30% success rate actually being amazing is a lot of us don’t. Talk about failure. You know, it’s like, it’s like a subject, you know, it’s like talking about your ex, you know, it’s like, oh, let’s not, let’s not bring her up.

You know? It’s like, oh, she’s kinda, she was kinda cute and I kind think you screwed up, so let, let, let’s bring it up. No, but we learn from failure and it’s just interesting that. Um, I think as athletes, you know, you’re so driven to succeed. Mm-hmm. But what I’ve found, and it, it’s somewhat cliche, but like, I just find, like when people make mistakes, the athletes I work with, I’m communicating with every single day, all day.

Um, yeah. When they make a mistake, every single time there’s an opportunity to learn because we find a weakness. Like, this is, this is, or, you know, or what I like to call an opportunity, even though I just call it a weakness, I usually call it an opportunity, but it, but it really is because absolutely. If you are, if you’re winning.

What’d you learn? You got confirmation on the things that you’ve done to prepare, which is good. Mm-hmm. Um, you got a nice bonus check, you know, you secured your future maybe a little bit more, but in reality, I know myself, when I make mistakes, that’s when I tend to learn the most. So I like that you highlighted that.

Um, because I just think that failure is something that, uh, That we don’t quite have a great relationship with. Yeah. What I’m curious about when it comes to failure is, When I work out, I always like to go to failure. I, I have a belief and I, I wanna see if this is true or not. My guess is it’s not because I just made up the belief.

I have no validation, no credit, uh, nothing to credit towards this, but I always felt like when I go to the gym that if I’m the one that gets to the point where I’m failing, where I mentally haven’t given up, but my muscle instead says, I’m actually done with you and then the weight starts to go down.

That’s my end point. How do you, so one, is there any truth to that? Am I over-training? Is there something wrong with that? And then how do you know what the end point of just a training session is? Because I just see that everyone in the gym is not, in my opinion, pushing the failure. Is that, is that, is there any truth to pushing the failure or PA or through it, or is that not, am I doing more harm than good?

No, you’re actually, uh, you’re actually correct on that. And you know, I think that, again, you know, there’s a couple different layers to that question too, depending on if you’re an athlete, if you’re a general fitness enthusiast, maybe someone that’s just going in there for a 30 minute workout just to move.

But, uh, in terms of the physiology, Failure and going to failure is one of the best ways to create a hypertrophy strength or power change. And um, I actually, it’s funny that you mentioned this. I was literally just reading a study like yesterday or two days ago that spoke about this. And it was talking specifically about no matter how much weight you use, as long as you’re going to failure, The muscles are gonna generate and make that change on a physiological perspective.

So you can be working at 50% of the, the weight that you’re usually working with, but as long as you go to failure, you’re, you’re going to create that physiological change. Now, depending on, you know, what type of, I guess, training you’re in, if you’re looking for higher trophy, you’re looking for strength or power, those reps and weight are obviously gonna be a little different, but failure is one of, I always trained a failure too.

You know, I like just getting that LA, just being able to get that last rep and maybe even trying to go again and just literally failing, like you said, like mentally wanting to do it, but I physically can’t. Um, But again, let’s say you’re, and again, it will also depend on maybe you’re in the middle of the season, Mike, you’re not trying to train, uh, train that way because of the soreness and fatigue that it will cause.

So, um, again, I think it depends on, I guess you would say the phase of training you’re in. But if you’re not in like a competitive stage, if you’re in the off season, then a hundred percent. Yeah. I love, I love training to failure and I, I strongly believe in it.

Yeah. And it just feels like you tested yourself and I don’t know, I think when you, when you do hard things, less hard things feel, or most things just feel easier, you know?

I mean, uh, definitely. And so, you know, even just going up in a higher weight, you know, some, I, I find myself. Being much stronger than than I thought I was. Mm-hmm. Um, and yeah, so what’s interesting to me is also the fact that you’ve got people that you’re training that are possibly competing. Let’s say that there’s a training session on, just for an example on a Wednesday with you.

Yep. And then they’re competing on Saturday or maybe even a Friday. Maybe it’s a two day window. How do you balance. Something like what we just talked about where it’s like, Hey, I want to grow. I’m gonna get stronger, or, or whatever it is. I, but, but I wanna push the failure knowing that there’s gonna be some soreness and there’s gonna be some recovery because I want to get an ultimate result, but at the same time, I’m competing for mm-hmm.

X amount of hours on a Saturday or Friday. Yep. How, how do you manage the balance between that?

No, that’s a great question then. I think again, it comes down to the, the phases that you’re in, right? So that type of failure, hard training is something you want to make the focus of the off season, you know, especially as athletes are, are possibly racing Saturday to Saturday using Supercross and motocross, for example.

Uh, off season. It’s, it’s definitely gonna be a little bit more of that grind, pushing through, even though you’re riding during that time, um, you’re still trying to get a lot outta riding. And the gym. So like you pointed out, there’s a balance to that. So I think like that pushing to the end, that failure, failure failure is, is definitely gonna be more of an off-season focus.

And then once you’re in the season, it’s all about managing and balancing your workload. You can have days like that, but for example, maybe that would be on a Tuesday to give you that time to recover. Because as you know, there’s some exercises that you may be sore for. Three to four days, and you definitely don’t wanna feel that way going into a competition.

And that’s where recovery comes into play. So obviously there’s a lot of different forms of recovery, uh, active recovery, rolling out sugar point therapy, uh, sauna ice baths, and you can use all those. And everybody’s response to that is different. So, Finding the body’s best response for your yourself, um, and using those techniques to help you feel, I guess you would say, as refreshed as possible.

And then using all the technologies that are out there Nowadays you have, you know, all these heart rate monitors, sleep monitors, so you’re just managing someone’s just body and looking at all these different, I guess, data points and. Seeing what state they’re in and making a decision on a daily basis to say, okay, maybe today we’re gonna take it a little easy.

Your resting heart rate’s a little high, your HR v’s a little low. So using all those things, and that’s the great thing. As you know, sports science has progressed over the years. It’s definitely giving more data points to, to look at, but you can get carried away with it and start looking at a, a bunch of different things.

And I’m, I’m the firm believer in keeping things pretty simple. Um, but yeah, I think just managing someone’s workload during the week is obviously extremely important. And back to the individuality, uh, everyone kind of responds different to exercise. Maybe you’re just more prone to being a cardio guy or maybe strength training really, really affects your fatigue levels for the, uh, two or three days prior.

So, um, again, understanding your body with your coach and, and trying to come up with strategies to make you as fresh as possible, I think is. Is obviously the best way to, to go after something like that.

Yeah. And and so when it comes to like with these athletes, I think what’s interesting is that people like familiarity.

They like comfort. They like certainty. Yeah. So I even catch myself going to the gym and wanting to head towards the same machines. Yeah. And e e, even if there’s four flat benches, I have a tendency to want the ones. That are on one side more than the other. It’s like, that’s how much the consistency is. I park in the same spot and you start to realize that this is how we are, you know, but we also know that if we do the same thing, we get the same result.

And so Sure. How, how, how do you balance that? Because, you know, you don’t want an athlete that likes your program to come in. All of a sudden you’re like, Hey, guess what? Uh, we’re going surfing and then we’re doing pushups, and we’re running on the beach. It’s like, whoa. One, I have a fear of water almost drowned twice.

What’s going on? This is not familiar. Does not sound cool. Like, what the hell are you doing to me, Joe? Like, I came here because we do the, we do the battle ropes. Like why aren’t we doing the battle ropes? How, how do you manage that? Because you gotta keep things interesting too, right?

Absolutely. And periodization is the word that came to mind there.

And like you just said, if you do something for too long, your body just becomes. Immune to it. Right? And you want to stress and kind of shock the body sometimes. And it’s funny that you say that because athletes are always trying to bargain with me of things that they want and want not want to do. And I know it’s because they’re good at it.

Right. And you know, it’s like, oh, why don’t we do this today? Like, you’re good at that. We’re, I want to do something that’s gonna challenge you and obviously attack your weaknesses. Right. And I think that’s the biggest thing is, is looking at the body as a whole. And then understanding that, you know, any type of compensation in your body, whether it’s posture, strength, and mobility, is gonna further create a weakness or a compensation that could potentially lead to an injury.

So I’m a very big, uh, proponent of periodization in changing programs pretty regularly. Like some of the high level athletes, I might only have them on a program for three weeks because they adapt so quick to it. Especially as if we go through training blocks. For example, when the MLB guys are here full time, they’re here five days a week, and they’re here for about three to four months.

So in the beginning, when they first come after the season, it’s more general body like a little body weight, and then introducing them back into weights because after 162 game season, their bodies are destroyed and they’re destroyed mentally too. They just want to just turn it off. So, We start slowly and the first phase always lasts about a month and, and then as we progress, by the time I’m toward the end, I’ve had athletes and I’ve had to change their program in like two weeks because they’re adapting so fast because they’re becoming so fit and so strong and powerful.

So periodization is a big part of my programming and. I think it’s, like you said, pointed out, it’s good for a mental too, right? So mentally they, they don’t wanna be stuck doing the same things and there’s real no progress with, you know, continuing to do the same thing all the time in the gym. And, um, whether it’s changing your frequency, your rep ranges, your rest periods, there’s a lot of different ways to kind of manipulate that.

And, you know, if you do like a certain movement, And you wanna keep that in your program, maybe change the tempo, right? Maybe change the reps and I mean that would like mentally too be, be great as well as, you know, it’s gonna challenge you in a different way. Maybe instead of just letting the bar come down, you’re doing like a four second ecentric.

And the change that happens there is, is tremendous. And yeah, again, just kind of, I’m really big proponent on, uh, changing up programs pretty regularly.

I like that. I think that was, that really resonated with me, what you just said. Yeah. Um, even because you get the familiarity, like if I mm-hmm. If I wanna do, I’m just keeping simple stuff.

Battle ropes. Yeah. Um, but yeah, but then you just say, Hey, let’s double the tempo, or let’s cut the time in half. Or maybe even just sprinkle something in between. I don’t know. I mean, could you do. Battle ropes, but then maybe after a minute, put ’em down and then just do burpees and then go back to battle ropes.

Yeah, exactly.

Just constantly challenging and changing things, uh, creates a lot of positive

change in the body. Yeah, I like that. That was actually good. Yeah. So, um, just to make sure I’ve got it right, I think I get it, but I wanna, I’ve never heard of the word before and I think there’s something there that I want to explore.

When you use the word period periodization, um, what, how, how did, how do you define that?

Um, so I basically to simplify it, just define it as using training blocks and basically, you know, if you have one training block that is the, like, focus of, you know, you have a split, maybe you have upper day, lower day, upper lower, and you have specific movements within those blocks.

The body has an ability to adapt to things so quickly. So changing it every three to four weeks is kind of the physiological kind of guidelines that you wanna follow as the body will adapt in that time, especially as someone’s a new, let’s say you’re just getting into exercise, right? Um, At first, the body’s gonna get shocked, and that’s when new, I guess exercise goers experience the most change, right?

As soon as you start, you start to see great progress. Um, and then all of a sudden you start to plateau. Cause the body again is getting used to what you’re doing. So the periodization kind of just means to change things up regularly, right? You’re going through periods, right? You’re, you have this block of strength, maybe then the next block is.

Still strength, but you gotta change the movements up still with the goal of just creating strength there. Maybe one, a little toning too. But it’s all about just constantly changing. Um, the movements, the frequency, the rep ranges and periodization, just in short, just kind of just means just different blocks and different times and just changing things up on a, on a consistent basis.

Love it. And what I thought might be interesting to explore is when you’ve got these MLB guys, are they all on the same team or are they different teams when they come to your sessions? Uh, different teams. Interesting. So I think what’s interesting to me is obviously athletes, it’s all about being competitive, right?

I mean, I know you go with an athlete to top golf. And everyone could say, it’s all about cheese quesadillas and beer. But it really isn’t, you know? I mean, you know, you take like a sip of your beer, you try to look like a man, you take a sip of your beer, be like, I don’t wanna throw off my game. Like, I wanna win.

Um, so I could imagine or would imagine that these guys are competitive especially, well, I don’t, I don’t, even if I’d say between teams or within teams, do you notice a lot of competitiveness, kind of like, uh, That one wandering eye where it’s like, Hey, Stan over there, uh, you know, just did this exercise.

Well, I wanna do that exercise to see if I can beat him. Yeah, yeah. Um, do you, do you find a lot of that competitiveness coming out in some of the workouts?

Um, yes and no. So a lot of the, um, my sessions are just one-on-one. Oh, okay. So, but again, like we spoke about, it’s very specific to, that’s because it’s very specific to the individual.

Are there generic movements that I have athletes doing? Yes. Um, I think creating power and strength come from, you know, certain specific movements that I’ll have everyone do. But then as we get deeper into the session or deeper into the training and I start to understand the person a little more, I understand what they need and I basically implement movements that are specific to them.

So, But yes, I definitely get the question sometimes, oh, what does so-and-so do on this? You know, if, you know they’re doing that. And, um, yeah, I actually train a group of like mountain bike, downhill mountain bike kids that race in the World Cup Mountain bike series, and they’re pretty competitive, you know, and they’re, they’re a little younger, so they’re, they’re more in like the, not, I would say general fitness, but the movements that they’re doing are a little bit more basic, I would say.

So they’re all kind of on the same program. They’ll go off and do their own things, but when they’re all doing the same stuff, it’s definitely, I’m gonna do five pounds more than this guy. And then they start talking, uh, crap to each other. So it definitely becomes competitive and uh, it’s funny to watch too sometimes.

Yeah, so if you’re doing what, so I want to shift gears to like business, cuz I, I love talking business, but of course, so when it comes to scalability, obviously when you’re working one-on-one, and this is actually, I. What I have been working on for probably, uh, the last like, two weeks. Big time every day.

Yeah. Is the scalability piece where, um, obviously I have my one-on-one clients I talk to exclusively, but I can only handle so many. I mean, I, I limit it now. I moved it from six to seven, now it’s at eight. I can handle eight. But after that it gets to be, uh, I think that’s the limit. I think that’s where I can still do a great job, but then I start to, to lose it.

Um, obviously with you, you can handle more than that. How do you scale? Like, cause I looked at your website. You have a great website by the way. That was one of the things. Appreciate that. I, I love it because, you know, I always go on mobile and it’s like, that’s like the, the test. You better pass. Cause I’m like, all right, if you got a real business, I want to see a clean mobile.

That’s funny. You know, friendly design. That’s something we worked on. Yeah. Yours, I could tell that there was a lot of thought and effort that went into that. Yeah. Thank you. How do you scale?

Yeah, I mean that’s a great question and it’s something that I’ve been, you know, starting to think more about. Uh, cuz I do a lot of consulting as well, so I work with other brands and teams and I do a little bit employee wellness as well.

I, um, a couple different organizations and, um, I think this scaling is gonna, obviously it came, the start of it was the app and we have a mobile fitness app. and that’s a great way for me to, to work with individuals on a one-on-one basis. But obviously I can’t, there’s only so many hours in a day and cer certain time slots where I just can’t get anybody in here.

It’s just not possible. So I think that’s, that was the first step in me scaling was creating the app so I can work with more people. And the app is great. And we have two programs. One is general fitness, someone just getting into exercise or just trying to stay fit. And that’s a little bit more of a hands-off program.

And then the sports performance is definitely more hands-on, or you have the ability to communicate with me directly via FaceTime. You can message me on the app and I extend my personal number to you. So we can go through things if you’re struggling, and, uh, maybe walk you through exercises if you’re having a hard time.

And, uh, I think the second step is gonna be hiring someone and just training them. Um, To, I guess, follow the methodologies that I have, I guess you would say the, what the brand represents and, uh, I think I’m getting pretty close to that and it’s something that I have been thinking about, uh, pretty recently.

It’s funny that you brought that up and yeah, I think that’s the next step. And because like you said, there’s only so, so many hours in the day and, um, I can only be at so many places in one time, so, uh, I think that’s the next step and uh, I’m actually excited to,

to take that step. Yeah, it’s wild. And I don’t know if you’ve explored this, but I’ll share something that I reactivated two days ago and uh, is kind of like a next level that I’ve been exploring is, and I’m curious to see what your thoughts are on this.

I. I’ve been exploring the VR space and I know, uh, I’m a little anti Zuck. He’s kind of, he actually banned me from Instagram. I don’t even know how I have my Instagram accounts. He banned me for re re reposting AIA Motog Stoppy video twice, and apparently I was supposed to do that. So then I get a message that, First I was warned, then I was banned, and then I contacted them and go, you’re actually banned for life.

Oh, I’m, I’m banned for life from Instagram. No, never thought I’d say that, but, uh, interesting. We’re still on, so we’re, we’re hanging by a thread. But what was interesting is, uh, you know, I’m kind of have been playing around with, uh, the metaverse and, and you know, using VR technology in different ways. And one of the ways that I have been using it, Just started testing it not too long ago with athletes who I wanna help manage their fight or fight, flight or freeze response.

And so I’ve actually been virtually boxing, um, my athletes and interesting, uh, while doing that. I can hear them and I can guide them as we’re trying to punch each other in the face and it feels very real. So it does activate the fight or flight, but what I can do is I can kind of walk them through, check on their breathing, check on their focus, you know, maintain composure, and it’s been very effective.

May one athlete in particular, I wish I recorded our first fight. It’s, and this person is a true athlete too. They’re, they’re in shape and they can, they’ve done some pretty amazing things, but I’ll tell you, their fight or flight was activated and they were huffing and puffing because they felt like they were under attack.

Yeah. And it was very, very interesting to me. And then as we started to walk through, it was only like two, three sessions. We started to find that. Um, they were able to manage that stress response a lot better. So, um, and even myself, there’s an app called Supernatural, which I’ve been using to work on my breathing, uh, and work on my fitness.

And also I fight. So I fight in the morning. And then I do this other app just to mix it up cause I’ve been going to the gym and just wanna try something different. Absolutely. Have you absolutely explored vr? Do you do, do people in your industry talk about it or is it a little bit too fufu and too distant in the future and people just want, you know, Joe with a good looking, Joe with a slick back hair and, and the beautiful facility.

I mean, are they coming, you know, what do you think in the future?

I mean, I guess that the future’s open to really anything. Right? And I have not explored that world. I obviously understand that it’s becoming a big part of society and it could be something that, who knows, I might say I will, would never use, but never say never.

You don’t know what’s gonna be of in 10 years. And, um, Yeah, I mean, if you’re, I mean, I would definitely understand how it’s creating that flight or flight response. You know, you’re, you’re in the moment and how that is very good to manage and understand how to manage your stress levels. So I could see that being in a really effective tool.

Um, I could probably get more of the younger generation of athletes that I work with to use it. The old guys, not the old guys, but, Older veteran of some of the sports court would probably never, never do it. I would just get a look, you know, and, um, yeah, I mean, like I said, I’m, I’m open, you know, I’m open-minded to things.

And if, I mean, you’re seeing results from something and it works for you, who’s to say not to do it right? And, um, everyone’s got their niche. Everyone’s got, um, something that makes them. You know who they are and, uh, I, again, if it works for you, stick to it and, and use it as a tool and understanding that there’s a lot of tools out there.

And, um, yeah, I, I, I would be open to understanding more about it.

Mm-hmm. For sure. Yeah. And I like how even when we kick things off earlier, how you said that you’re open-minded and it, and it’s interesting cuz the. The better you get at something. I totally agree with you. Like the more you become open-minded and the more that you’re super comfortable saying like, I don’t know, you know, like Yeah.

If someone said, Hey, what muscle is this? And you’re like, yeah, the muscle beneath that, like, come on. Like, uh, yeah, like I know I can look it up, but like I don’t have the exact name of it Exactly. Because you know, sometimes it’s like, you know, do I really even need to know that? But it’s interesting that. I do feel that when you’re younger, you, you’re compelled to have the answers to everything, but as you start to become a master of your craft or a approach mastery, you do start to become more open-minded and you do feel much more comfortable saying, I don’t know.

Have you kind of found that too? Like, it, it’s almost like a, a very freeing it, it’s a, in a weird way, it’s almost like confidence building and it’s almost a sense of security of saying, I don’t know. Yeah,

no, I couldn’t agree more. Yeah, I mean, I feel like as when you, you know, you’re a little younger, you don’t wanna say that you don’t know something, right?

It’s, you know, I just got, you just get outta school and you’re supposed to have a master’s degree and in, in this specific field. But, you know, I, I’ve almost said, and I’ve said this before, that I, I’ve learned so much just. In the real world situation of what I do, you know, I think education gives you a great understanding.

It gives you a great base of knowledge, but until you’re in a room with someone high level and working with them specifically, um, you’re not challenged that way. Right? And, um, as you progress through this, you just start to want to understand more and then, Every time I want to understand something more, it just opens up a whole Pandora’s box of me diving into something.

And you can do that with everything in this world, you know? And there’s always new technologies, new theories, new findings, and it’s really endless. And I guess you can almost drive yourself crazy in that way, but. Um, I think it’s just honing in on certain things for a little bit and not overloading, cuz I, I mean, you can easily overload with trying to understand, especially the human body and there’s so many parts of the human body that are not known of the true functionality of it.

So it, it, it’s one of those things that I, I definitely try to manage, I guess I would say. Um, but yeah, it’s, uh, it’s definitely something that now I, I’m. More than okay with saying, I have no idea. You know, like, and I’m okay with it, you know? And like you said, I think you like, it is a little bit of like a, a freeing, just confident, like, you know, I don’t know.

Yeah, I dunno, but I’m gotta figure it out or, or find someone help you. Hundred percent. Yeah, no, it’s interesting. Yeah, so the, so you must get this question all the time and I wonder what you know, cuz obviously not everyone listening to this today is, uh, you know, a supreme athlete, some of us are in the phase of.

Hey, be I, I love how people say Beachbody, you know? Um, but everybody’s a Beachbody. But you know, people, people wanna lose weight. People want to to be fit. What’s kind of like outside of the realm of like pro-athletes and elite athletes? Mm-hmm. What’s kind of, because you must get this quite, cuz there’s much more of a bigger demographic of people that just want to shed 20 pounds.

What’s usually your best. Generic advice for just overall people wanting to like lose weight. I’m curious because, yeah, I feel like, um, I’ve been bumping into a lot of things that are, uh, kind of like anti cardio and I wonder is that clickbait or is there some reality to that?

Um, well, I think the biggest advice I would ever say is, and I’m sure you’ve heard this, is just consistency, right?

And it’s very easy to be inconsistent and. It’s very easy to use. A lot of, I don’t wanna use them excuses, because there’s life. You got work, you got kids, but there’s 24 hours in a day. Right? And you can get a 30 minute workout in, even if it’s 20 minutes and. And I think going back to more what you were just saying about cardio versus strength training, I think, you know, it’s very preference based.

Obviously, you know, from a mental perspective, you might enjoy cardio a little more. And if you do make it your thing, you know, there’s a lot of different modalities, right? You can go running, you can go mountain biking, cycling. You know, all those. And then if you, you’re a strength training person or you like, you know, lifting weights, again, a lot of different modalities.

High intensity training, strength training, you can even do, uh, like, you know, the CrossFit ish type of workout. You know, whatever you enjoy. But if there’s consistency in that program, you will see results. You know, and that doesn’t mean you have to work out every day. And that doesn’t mean every workout has to be.

Life or death, the hardest workout you’re crawling out of the gym of your life. Right? I think that’s another big mistake with training as well, is people think that, oh, that was easy. They didn’t get anything out of it. But again, going back to that mental type of uh, perspective, is sometimes it takes a lot to mentally get into a workout.

And if you’re gonna just go to that failure, it doesn’t have to be failure every time. Right? You know, you pick a day that’s more low intensity, but maybe the duration’s longer, and then the high intensity days. It’s a little shorter duration, right? So there’s a lot of different strategies, but I think keeping it simple, being consistent and finding something you like will create results.

Yeah, I love it. And, and so I test drove something. I want to share this with you cause I think you’ll find it interesting is I wanted to start working out in the morning. I tend to work out like right around lunchtime. That’s kind of like my, my workout every day is usually like one-ish. So I said, you know what, I’m gonna keep that, but I wanna do a hit workout.

And I wanna do it early, and I wanna do it before I message all my morning clients. So I picked the time of 7:00 AM And so what I did is I decided, I said, you know, I’m gonna have fun with this. This is gonna be more of an experiment. In human behavior than it is so much me having some sort of result or outcome.

So I said, um, what I’m gonna do and that, and this worked like gold, is I said, I’m going to do like a slow play on getting, creating the habit of a morning hit workout. And so morning number one. And it was interesting cuz I, I did. Put a governor on myself, I said, morning number one, you’re going to have your workout outfit laid out, and it’s gonna be sitting in a very predominant place.

And so I went out on my kitchen table, there’s my workout stuff, and I’m pretty disciplined, so I, I can go to the workout, but I just, I, I wasn’t disciplined with my morning stuff. So I see the workout thing, I look at it, I’m like, hmm. Okay. And I’m like, you don’t have to work out. Don’t worry about it. I’m like, all right.

So fir first day I didn’t work out, but what I did is I said, I have to at seven o’clock, no matter what I’m doing at seven o’clock, no matter what, even if I’m puking my brains out and I’m sick, and I’ve got. Who knows, whatever the next strain of whatever is. I said, I, I have to at least stop for a moment and consider the fact that a workout is an option.

And so I start with the, the workout outfit. Then that became put on the workout outfit. I really dramatized this. And then, so that’s day one. The day two is putting it on. Day three is going down with a workout outfit on and. You know, turning onto tv cause I was gonna do like a YouTube, like hit workout.

Like just scroll through and grab something. Yeah. So I put the light on and then I tried to throttle myself back and I said, you can’t work out until day four. And what was interesting is I. I didn’t realize that I was truly creating this habit where like, I was looking at the clock at like six, I usually wake up at like 4, 4 30.

Mm-hmm. So by like 6 30, 6 45, I’m like really paying attention to the clock on my computer and I’m like, oh wow. It’s 6 45, it’s, it’s 6 52 like, and I started getting distracted to the point where my body. It was almost becoming my mind and it it was like, you know what, maybe I’m just gonna go put the outfit on a little earlier cuz I’m thinking about it.

Why not just put it on and then, you know what, I’m gonna turn the light on in the gym. Why not? I’m gonna turn the YouTube on. And you know what? I might as well just scroll. I’m already dressed, I already have the tv, I have the light on. I might as well at this point just do something. And then what I started finding myself doing is I just started working out and I didn’t even really have to think about it.

And it only took like four. Times of doing this. So I don’t know. Mm-hmm. Just r random thought. But yeah, I just thought it was interesting that people find it so difficult to start something, but I just know that most of my job as a mental performance coach is breaking the habit of being yourself. So it’s just a habitual pattern, 95% of your day.

So I’m like, why not just create a new pattern, but start off simple. But I think to your point, like people think it’s like, Hey man, Joe, you know, tell you what I want. I haven’t worked out for two years. Put me on a program. I’ll show up tomorrow. Let’s do like an hour. Like, just give it to me. Like I, I want results.

And then it’s like, oh, oh, oh, you can’t do that. That’s just not sustainable. Like, that’s ego-based. That’s, that’s not gonna hold true. I mean, have you found people trying to come in a little too hot and then burn out? Oh, yeah. Oh

yeah. And I think that’s the biggest thing is people get excited about it, right?

And no, they’re like, all right, I need to lose. And maybe they’re like a time crunch too, right? They’re, they got a wedding, or they’re going on vacation, or, you know, they’re like, I, I need to lose 20 pounds. And it’s like, all right. Like, you know, it’s, just think about how long it took you to put that on, right?

It’s not gonna come off in, in, in two weeks, you know? You just gotta be consistent. You gotta come in slow. And most of the times, You see people come in and they do this crazy workout their first day back and you know, I don’t know how long, and they’re, they’re destroyed. And then they’re like, it’s, that’s so discouraging.

I feel like it’s like, and that sets them up. I don’t wanna say for failure, but you know, they’re like, well, last, and I hear this all the time. Well, I can’t do this exercise because it makes me too sore or it hurts my back. Or it’s probably cuz you overdid it the last time you, you know, you worked out. So it’s, uh, I, I promise you this is not supposed to hurt the way you’re describing to me.

So, um, yeah, there’s hard times you’re gonna be pushing through some stuff, but, uh, yeah, just, just come in, you know, maybe do 30 minutes your first workout, especially if you haven’t worked out in like. You know, a couple months, you know, it’s not gonna feel good. If you work out for an hour and a half, you’re gonna be really, really sore.

So, uh, yeah, it’s just easing back into it. And then, like you said, you brought up a great point is that habit, and once it becomes a habit, it’s just, it’s just automated. It’s just automated, is making a coffee in the morning and leaving the house right. It, it just becomes a part of your daily routine. And that is a hard point that it is hard to get to that point.

But once you’re there, it’s, it’s just a, it’s a lifestyle and it’s a healthy lifestyle, right? Exercise is good for you. And, uh, once you create the habit, it, it, it’s just, it’s easy From there on out, I feel like,

Yeah, and, and like you said, like just as hard it is to create the habit. It’s also that hard to break it, and so hundred percent, if you get to that point, I mean, I know with me, I’m at the point where if I do my one o’clock workout, I’m not even thinking about it.

It’s just like at 12 o’clock I’m like, oh, it’s 12. And I, I’m like almost unconsciously, automatically starting to shift my focus. Starting to plan. Like, hey, let’s, let’s start getting outta here. Let’s do our thing and then we come back, we’ll eat. So yeah, it’s really interesting. You just gave me a million dollar business idea too.

Um, it’s an emergency two week. Probably two to four, well, two to four week you could pick your program. Depends on how much you want to suffer. But it’s an emergency workout, wedding prep program. So it’s so, so I picture it like this. So you have your little program where, uh, you, the woman goes in to get fit for a dress and it’s like, it’s a shit show.

Like things are not going well. Total meltdown into it. Total meltdown. Yeah. And she is like, I have to fit into this dress. Call Joe. Call Joe, can’t fit, can’t can’t fit into the dress. Call Joe. And then at that point, she’s an emergency situation. She’s already dropped 30 grand on a wedding, so your price point, so, so that’s the anchor.

So now all of a sudden it’s like, I’ve spent 2000 on this, 8,000 on this 10,000. Hey, tell you what, if you don’t get in the dress, It’s all for nothing. Hey, for 12, for 1200 bucks. Yeah. For 1200 bucks. I will work with you virtually for four weeks and we’ll get you in the dress. And if you knee only got two weeks and you put yourself in that situation, it’s only two grand.

So we’ll, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll get you there, you know, and I don’t know what you gotta do again, but you know, I mean if MMA fighter, I mean, fighters lose that much mono weight even though it’s not healthy. I get it. I know it’s not healthy. Yeah, sure. Whatever. Yeah. But. I don’t think a, a woman who can’t fit in her dress for a big wedding day, that shop 30 grand on, or who knows, maybe 250 grand on, I don’t think she really cares about health at that moment, you know?

No, it’s

happened. She’s making, she’s making it happen.

Yeah. I mean, if you gave her a sharp knife, you know, that’d probably be, she’d probably consider it, you know. It’s like, I’ll just, I’ll, I’ll literally trim the fat, you know? It’s like that, that’s like a big pain point for people, so it’s Oh, yeah.

Interesting. Absolutely. So that, so yeah, if anyone’s listening, uh, just gimme Yeah. I don’t know. 2%.

Wait. We call,

what’s it called again? Uh, we’re gonna call it Don’t fit. It can’t fit. Call Joe. Yeah. Yeah. Can’t, can’t, oh, can’t fit. Call Joe. Yeah. Won’t fit.


Joe. Uh, won’t fit Wedding. Wedding dress won’t fit Wedding.

I don’t know. I thought I had it. Let’s make that one. You did have, I forget what it was though,

but it, but it would work. Yeah. It’s interesting how all that works. But, uh, so as we wrap things up, would love to hear, um, who is your ideal client? If someone’s listening right now and they’re like, Hey, I like this guy Joe.

Uh, uh. I’ve got a wedding coming up. Let’s just say that you are an athlete or someone that wants to get fit. Yeah. Um, who’s your ideal client? Like who, who’s listening right now that should call you and say, Hey, I like your style. Let, let’s, let’s do this.

Yeah. I think that’s a great question. And you know, I think it’s someone again, who’s has that dedication to the program and wants to be consistent.

And again, if they’re looking just to be healthy or general fitness, uh, Or sports performance, they just, you know, they come with that want and, you know, um, willingness to learn. And because I will say that probably a lot of what I do is, is not traditional. You know, I have traditional movements and I guess you would say, um, exercise, order and program design.

Um, I think I’m traditional in that way, but, uh, a lot of stuff that I do is. And the thinking that I do is, is a little different and I guess come open-minded and, and willing to trust the process. You know, and I’m, and again, and I’m here for everybody, right? I, I want everyone to be healthy to perform for their job if they’re a professional athlete.

And you know, just if you train better, you live better. And that’s kind of our little saying that we have and we’re strong. And, uh, I, I think that goes a long way. And just having that me, that, you know, that mentality that. You know, if you’re looking to, to gain something, it, it might not happen overnight.

Right. And, you know, tangible, immediate rewards are not always present. So it’s just having that grit and that perseverance and you know, it all aids and changing everything that you do. Like your self-image, your self-efficacy, it, it’s all for the better picture for you being healthier and living a better life.

So that’s kind of like, you know, I guess you would say our ideal client and what we’re looking for in people and. It’s just really just trying to help everyone out there.

I love it. And where can people reach out to find you, uh, if they wanna join one of your programs? So the best

way to join one of our programs is on our website.

It’s M one, and then my Instagram, you can reach out. It’s at joe underscore cancel. And yeah, those are the two best ways to, uh, reach out. And, uh, if you have any questions, I’m, I’m here to answer them for sure.

All right Joe, thank you so much for, for coming on and uh, thanks for fielding some of my crazy off the wall, non-typical questions.

I really appreciate it and uh, thank you so much.

I appreciate having me on. I hope we can do it again soon.